Cap from rabbit, Fire drill

[Burner]

Hello together,

I love The Long Dark very much! I wish only two things:

1. A Cap. Build from rabbit coat. Because in Game all Clothes can build from Animals, but a cap is missing.
2. A Fire-Drill. Build with two sticks and one cord. Because when you don't find matches, loupe or something else, you can not make Fire. A Fire-Drill is so easy and also used in reality.

Thanks you for this great game!!!

Burner

[The_Materialist]

1 hour ago, Burner said:

A Fire-Drill is so easy

That is maybe the point why they do not put that into the game. I would agree to make a fire drill work like this: arrowshaft and bow can be used as a fire drill but lose 5% condition for every use. This makes the firemaking with a fire-drill not super overpowered. I mean come on? You need to carry a cord with you and make fire from sticks you find? How easy would that be? Two sticks are super easy to find and a string is also super easy to craft, this would make other fire makeing tools less useful and valuable. But with the bow usage you would balance it since maple is limited and needs to be found and crafted into a bow. The point of firemakeing in the wilderness is that it is not as easy as you think. And by the way sticks tend to break it you bend them into a bow, that is also why you would need a sampling for a bow.

[The_Materialist]

Oh by the way, totaly agree on the hat. No matter if they introduce a new animal like a bever, fox, raccon or if you make it from a rabbit, there needs to be a craftable headgear.

[Fuarian]

The hat should be made with 5 rabbit hide and 3 gut and the firebow drill should be made with 1 maple sapling and one gut.

[Mroz4k]

Not fire drill, but bow fire drill. Big difference. Fire drill means you spin rod to create friction with your hands directly. That is insanely hard technique even in good, warmer conditions.

I disagree with friction fire altogether. It makes fire starting materials too easy to acquire.

I think we should have forgeable fire and steel instead. It requires scrap metals, time and a forge to make them, but makes fire starting materials renewable, but is still rather hard to use. But not as insane as friction fire - which is by the way too easily craftable. Would rather have the game more challenging.

 

The hat is old news. Should be 5 rabbits, and would be a Russian ushanka. Also only one could be worn at a time.

[Salty Crackers]

Honestly, an easier permanent non-lens firestarting solution would just make it so flares occasionally wash up. I fear flint and steel would be a bit too OP.

[Mroz4k]

12 hours ago, Salty Crackers said:

Honestly, an easier permanent non-lens firestarting solution would just make it so flares occasionally wash up. I fear flint and steel would be a bit too OP.

How so? Please don't tell me you are one of those people who think the Flint & steel and firestarters are the same thing...

I've covered that before. Flint & steel is not actually easy to use, at all.

I usually look at it this way:
Is difficult to create - has to be forged on a forge out of scrap metal, and a stone.
Is durable - I would say 2-4% condition drop per use, starts on 100% naturally.
Is hard to use - not like wood matches which add +15% bonus to starting fire, the flint and steel would not add any bonus at all, just basic chance. 
Requires tinder to be used, regardless of the level (same thing I consider a necessity for any friction fire material)

Flares from beachcombing are ridiculous, that is so much worse for game balance then a flint and steel ever would be. Because flares don't have to be used for fire starting but as a powerful light source and a tool to get extra warm bonus and animal scaring bonus. It is considered a luxury item for a reason.

[Salty Crackers]

Even then, you have the ability to always be able to start a fire, no matter what. With flares, they would wash up rarely and are only good for one or two fires each.

 

[Mroz4k]

18 minutes ago, Salty Crackers said:

Even then, you have the ability to always be able to start a fire, no matter what. With flares, they would wash up rarely and are only good for one or two fires each.

 

Missing the point that flares are not intended to be a fire source... but rather a rare tool that has many more important utilities. Which is exactly why it should not be washed up. Not to mention that to my knowledge, the once-soaked flare would no longer work anyways. Unless they are made specifically for sailing which are packed in extra water-resistant container. 

Finally, fire starting materials should not be reliant on beachcombing. I wonder who would be wasting flares for fire unless you have no other choice when you can just use the glass on good days.

You are not raising a particularly strong argument there.

[Salty Crackers]

The only real utility flares would serve in the late game would be to scare wolves with, because they don't need a match and aren't blown out by the wind. It wouldn't make any sense to use them for light, because you can use the storm lantern fueled by fish oil. Plus, pretty much everything depends on beachcombing eventually. Cloth, scrap, bullets, flare shells, and saplings are finite resources otherwise. 

On the other hand, it doesn't really matter if flint and steel has a severe fire starting penalty. By that point, you'll probably have level 5 firestarting , which has a 90% base chance of success. Even if the flint and steel has a massive 50% reduction in the success rate chance, you can still get a 55% probability if you use cedar firewood or a stick. 

[Mroz4k]

8 hours ago, Salty Crackers said:

The only real utility flares would serve in the late game would be to scare wolves with, because they don't need a match and aren't blown out by the wind. It wouldn't make any sense to use them for light, because you can use the storm lantern fueled by fish oil. Plus, pretty much everything depends on beachcombing eventually. Cloth, scrap, bullets, flare shells, and saplings are finite resources otherwise. 

1

Scaring wolves with a flare in strong winds is powerful-enough utility that makes the flares valuable enough that wasting them to start fires would be a shame. For same reasons you claim the storm lantern as a light fuel instead. I am not dissing flares for their use in starting fires, am simply saying they are a more versatile tool. What their use in the late-game would be is irrelevant - that depends on each player. If you want to use flares to start fires, good for you. I am pointing to the fact they do much more than just that. Same with your lantern argument - just because it's better to use lanterns doesn't mean some people wouldn't use flares.

By using your argument, we might as well just say that fire starting materials are good as they are right now... because thanks to mag glass, the fire starting materials are infinite.

As for a beachcombing argument... that is not a good thing. Less things should depend on beachcombing - I would be glad if there was more "reclaimed wood and cloth" washed up at expense of no (or very rare) bullets, flare shells (even flares, but not to use them as one-time matches), and saplings or meds - but saplings and meds as the plants would instead re-grow in the world. The fact that player is allowed to live off beachcombing with such a luxury is a bad thing. I want more gameplay variety, not less.

8 hours ago, Salty Crackers said:

On the other hand, it doesn't really matter if flint and steel has a severe fire starting penalty. By that point, you'll probably have level 5 firestarting , which has a 90% base chance of success. Even if the flint and steel has a massive 50% reduction in the success rate chance, you can still get a 55% probability if you use cedar firewood or a stick. 

Again, irrelevant. I didn't want to pull the percentages specifically, I thought I made it crystal clear what I meant when I said it - that the flint and steel would be a "difficult to use" tool for fire starting. Doesn't have to be ridiculously difficult to use, just harder - so it cant be properly used at low levels, but can become a viable solution somewhere mid-way.

So, taking look at the proper chances using the wiki:

Quote

• Level 1 bonus: Basic Fire Starting skill. 40% chance to start fires.
• Level 2 bonus: 55% chance to start fires. Fires last 10% longer. Requires 20 skill points.
• Level 3 bonus: 65% chance to start fires. Fires last 10% longer. Can start fires without tinder. Requires 50 skill points.
• Level 4 bonus: 75% chance to start fires. Fires last 25% longer. Can start fires without tinder. Requires 100 skill points.
• Level 5 bonus: 90% chance to start fires. Fires last 50% longer. Can start fires without tinder. Fires start 50% faster. Requires 200 skill points.

 

With this in mind, the flint and steel would have these properties:

-25% chance to start fires.
requires tinder to be used.
fire starts 50% slower. (makes it difficult to start fires on a stick with this before reaching level 5 which offsets this debuff. Because the stick would likely go out by the time you finished starting the fire. Additionally, you would need to use Accelerant or lamp fuel along with it to start it faster,)
uses 4% condition at use (that means a newly forged flint & steel can be used 25 times before breaking)
Cannot be used to light up torches (for obvious reasons)

This makes it almost impossible to use at low levels, but as long as you use it with correct firewood, it becomes a potential fire-starting choice at level 3, and at level 5 it is almost as good as anything else. That is a balanced suggestion that opens up more variety to fire starting materials. At high enough level, it basically becomes a craftable matchbox. It costs metal, which is a valuable resource, but can be in small quantities obtained through beachcombing.

Thanks to it, people in the late game would be able to light up fires often, which gives more variety in using fire as a tool. And people on Interloper, for example, won't die of thirst due to a lack of water caused by a continuous overcast that prevents the use of mag glass for weeks.

If friction fire was a possible solution, these would be the properties:
-50% chance of fire start
-no wind present (or only Indoor option)
-requires tinder to be used. (or uses up 3 tinders per attempt, that's more realistic, at least)
-100% slower fire starting (regardless of level, you cannot use sticks to make fires anymore)
-uses 10% condition on use. (can be used 10 times before breaking)

Would be crafted out of line, two sticks and a stone. Simple to craft, very hard to use even on high levels, and would pretty much require Cedar log to be used for fuel (in this case, it would act as the drilled base, the sticks and line would be the spinner and bow, and the stone would be held in the hand and used to push down on it. Ruined fire starting kit would produce 2 tinders and a stone if harvested.