Balaclava and Toque do not stack?

[Xanthos]

I have a balaclava and a toque. if i don the balaclava i get warmth +17, windchill +8, protection 20%

If i put on the toque on top of that i get warmth +19, windchill +7, protection 19%

I would have expected: warmth +19, windchill +9 and protection 22%

From the looks of it only the warmth bonus stacks and for the windchill and protection the toque takes priority even though i still wear the balaclava so that seems a bit odd to me.

[JAFO]

23 minutes ago, Xanthos said:

From the looks of it only the warmth bonus stacks and for the windchill and protection the toque takes priority even though i still wear the balaclava so that seems a bit odd to me.

You're partly correct. Only warmth bonuses stack. Only the outer layer counts towards windchill and protection. This applies to upper and lower body clothing as well. The toque always counts as an outer layer when paired with a scarf or balaclava (though I'm not sure about the Long Scarf). If you have two toques, you can choose which one is on the outer layer.

Edit: Welcome to the forums, btw!

[Thrasador]

1 minute ago, JAFO said:

You're partly correct. Only warmth bonuses stack. Only the outer layer counts towards windchill and protection. This applies to upper and lower body clothing as well. The toque always counts as an outer layer when paired with a scarf or balaclava, (though I'm not sure about the Long Scarf). If you have two toques, you can choose which one is on the outer layer.

Because the ski mask can only be worn on the inner slot....

So if you want the ski mask's wind chill bonus, you can't wear another hat over it. You have to wear it by itself sacrificing stacking a warmth bonus from another hat.

Which is something that should be revisited as it's silly...ski masks are pretty stretchy, you could probably wear it over another cap if you wanted to....

Also the wool toque doesn't cover your face, back of your head, or your neck.  A hat really only covers about 30-40% of your head,  face, and neck. So the ski mask is still pretty much covering a majority of your head even with a hat over the top of it.

Also I don't really understand how the wind isn't also blocked by a second layer of clothing. If they don't want the windchill bonus to stack, it should at least default to the highest value of two items....

So the wind blows right through the outer layer because it's crappy for wind.....how does it then blow through the second layer as if it isn't present at all? Should it at least have been slowed down a little by the outer jacket even if it isn't a windbreaker or a light shell designed to block wind? They treat the inner jacket like it doesn't exist as far as wind goes if something else is over it.....it will still block the wind from hitting your body if it's worn over your body.....wouldn't it?

I guess I just don't get it....

It seems like just another silly Hinterland game mechanic to me....because they didn't want stacking clothes to be OP and defeat the weather completely....

I think defaulting to the highest windchill bonus per slot regardless of slot would make sense too...

[JAFO]

3 minutes ago, Thrasador said:

Also I don't really understand how the wind isn't also blocked by a second layer of clothing.
...
So the wind blows right through the outer layer because it's crappy for wind.....how does it then blow through the second layer as if it isn't present at all?

Fully agree.. but for the time being at least, it is what it is.

[cullam]

Yeah, it's really annoying. So the best head-wear in the game is, realistically, no better than the far more common wool toque. 

[Thrasador]

1 hour ago, cullam said:

Yeah, it's really annoying. So the best head-wear in the game is, realistically, no better than the far more common wool toque. 

Basically yeah, unless you don't wear the toque over it, and sacrifice the warmth bonus from the hat....which I agree is stupid.

Anyways I have pretty much given up asking for things. They are just going to do what they are going to do, and so far none of it has been anything I asked for, lol....well except for patching things that are broken....

[Xanthos]

My ideas for these 3 stat would be as follows, (I do want to keep a seperate mechanism to for each stat)

For warmth bonus as it is, a addition of all layers.

-----------------

For protection of the best of the 2. With the current system if i put a piece of paper infront of a 2cm steel plate i could punch a hole in the steel plate as only the protection of the paper counts. Alternatively a quadratic addition could be used. The bigger the difference in protection the less bonus for stacking. Something that punches a hole in a protection 10 item will not have any trouble with protection 1 item.

--------------------

For the windchill my idea will be more complex.  The basic idea is that the wind penetrates the cloathing and sort of negates the warmth effect (but i do give it its own stat as it is currently). So for this i think of a wind resitance bonus wich for one item tranlates in to:

windchill bonurs = warmth bonus X wind resistance.

for 2 items: part of the wind is already stopped by the outer layer so only the part of the wind that goes through the outerlayer (A) reaches the innerlayer (B) and will generate a windchill:

1 - wind res. A = wind through A,   1 - wind res. B = wind through B,   so combined: New wind resistance B = 1 - (wind through A X wind through B)

The warmth bonus for B then becomes: warmth bonus X New wind resistance B

See an example calculation below. Column 1 is the warmth bonus, 2 is the Wind resitance, 3 and 4 are calculations steps for the 2nd layer 4 is the resulting wind chill bonus of the items and the total.  1st item is worn outside, 2nd item is worn inside. Item A is good agianst wind chill, item B has a good warmth bonus.  As you can see putting the wind protection layer on the inside will significantly decrease the wind chill bonus. Column 3 and 4 are calculation steps. If needed it can easily be expanded for additonal layers in case some wants to wear all the Toques in the game  

	1	2	3	4	5
	Warmth B	wind R			W.Chill bonus
Item A	10	0.5	0.5		5
Item B	20	0.1	0.9	0.55	11
total	30				16
Item B	20	0.1	0.9		2
Item A	10	0.5	0.5	0.55	5.5
total	30				7.5

and a 2nd one:

	1	2	3	4	5
	Warmth B	wind R			W.Chill bonus
Item A	10	0.3	0.7		3
Item B	20	0.1	0.9	0.37	7.4
total	30				10.4
Item B	20	0.1	0.9		2
Item A	10	0.3	0.7	0.37	3.7
total	30				5.7

 And a 3rd one incase some one thinks to be smart and wears 2 times item B; which is still a lot worse than A and B worn correclty against windchill. (and i think i got a bit carried away in this post   ah well I love the game)

	1	2	3	4	5
	Warmth B	wind R			W.Chill bonus
Item B	20	0.1	0.9		2
Item B	20	0.1	0.9	0.19	3.8
total	40				5.8

[Mroz4k]

I think the second layer´s wind resistance should provide 50% of what their actual windproofness is. This would make somewhat more sense then no bonus at all - because while it makes logical sense to put on more windproof item on top, if you dont do that, the inner part will still somewhat protect you - but to a lesser degree, because the way I remember it, windproofness is a matter of protecting against winds that blow fast, and once the wind passes through a first layer, it is already slow. Or something like that, I dont really know how to explain this in english. 

I feel like 50% windproof bonus of second layer is fair.

[Cattleman]

On 9/10/2017 at 0:07 PM, Mroz4k said:

I feel like 50% windproof bonus of second layer is fair.

I second this!