CitrinePeridot

Attacks & Clothing: Repair OR Second Pair?

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Something I have yet to deal with, but I have read how clothing can be torn during an altercation which, of course, is reasonable to expect. Can it be lost altogether though? So, I was wondering if it is better to have a second pair, repair, or some combination of both perhaps? Perhaps gloves would be the first to either be lost or get torn up whereas a toque would not? 

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5 minutes ago, CitrinePeridot said:

Perhaps gloves would be the first to either be lost or get torn up whereas a toque would not? 

I can tell you from my extensive testing, that whatever you are wearing on your hands or head will take the most damage.

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11 hours ago, CitrinePeridot said:

Can it be lost altogether though?

Yes.. it's really annoying when you lose a toque to a wolf or bear. And it's not limited to clothing. Items in your backpack can be destroyed too. The plaintive cries of those who've lost a bedroll to an attack still echo around these halls.

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OMG! A bedroll?! Surely you jest. Yet, I know you would not over that. Well, I just discovered I may have made the mistake of my life in the Survival mode then. I had two of those, and stripped one for the cloth. Perhaps my only saving grace there is that I have it at the easiest level. It does say they won't attack as long as they're not provoked in the description. So, here's hoping I don't do whatever it is one does to provoke them. 

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Ok. Well, also in that case, a second pair of clothing would be essential as well as necessary then. If you can outright loose an item that you would be in no position to repair, it would be wise to have a second alternative to it. Boy oh boy. The mistakes I've already made! LOL (sort of). 

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4 minutes ago, CitrinePeridot said:

OMG! A bedroll?! Surely you jest. Yet, I know you would not over that. Well, I just discovered I may have made the mistake of my life in the Survival mode then. I had two of those, and stripped one for the cloth.

Yup.. no joking.. it does happen.. but it's very rare. And yes, in Pilgrim mode I don't think you have anything to worry about. I don't worry about it in Voyageur mode. Stalker.. well.. there's one hell of a lot more wolves in Stalker, and they're all psychos, from what I hear. So I'd probably try real hard to have a spare bedroll in that mode.

Edited by JAFO
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5 hours ago, CitrinePeridot said:

Psycho wolves, eh? Sounds...uh...promising. Yeah, that's the word I was thinking of.  ;-)

I agree with @JAFO's synopsis. On Pilgrim I am sure you will find at least one bedroll on almost EVERY map....

It's ok to tear one up for cloth if you really needed cloth to fix your clothes, and you were on a map with almost no cloth. Like Forlorn Muskeg for instance....

So there will be more opportunities to claim a spare.

As far as "provoking" wolves and bears on Pilgrim. I'm not positive if aiming counts on Pilgrim, as I haven't tried aiming at a wolf or bear on Pilgrim.....because I don't play much Pilgrim.....but to be safe I would not aim or fire any rocks or other weapons (except maybe the flare gun) at wolves or bears. Unless you are planning on killing one, and you are prepared to be attacked if they don't die after aiming/shooting at them. (i.e. stripped naked and dropped your one remaining bedroll and clothes on the ground, lol)

Like Jafo said, since attacks can sometimes randomly damage one or more items of clothing, if the damage takes that item to zero condition, it is then "ruined." Ruined clothing cannot be repaired, but it can be harvested for cloth still...

Edited by Thrasador
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First of all, you should always keep your item condition in the tops - that way, you can avoid having a ruined piece of clothing. However (but not sure if that is the issue anymore) if your main worry is not to get a frostbite, my experience is that even if you wear a ruined piece of clothing, you will not start getting frostbite from exposure unless the item becomes fully frozen. However, ruined clothing does suck in water and freezes very fast.

I personally always carry "low level" clothings as spares when I am going on long journeys - I will often wear sports socks, a cotton toque and wool mittens in my inventory whenever I go out and expect to spend a night, or several, outside. Mostly because of wetness factor - I have gotten an accidental frostbite on my hands, because my rabbit mittens were almost fully frozen, without me realizing it. I then broke down a fir log... and once I finished, I instantly got the frostbite affliction. The Risk showed up right after I started proccessing the log, and I wasnt conscious enough to cancel the log harvesting. 

So now, I keep close tabs on the condition and wetness of my clothes, and because boots, socks and gloves are the one item that gets wet the most, and gloves or head are the item which gets torn out the most of the time, I always carry with me spare socks, gloves and a headpiece when I expect a night out. 

But, most high-end clothes are very heavy, and because I will always have to use my spare clothes when I am already on a way home, I will only take the lightest-to-carry items with me for spares. That is why I carry sports socks, wool mittens (or biker gloves, since those are leather and more durable, even if less weather protective) and a cotton toque. All of these items have a weight of 0,10 kg each. If for example my boots get frozen, I take them off and continue in socks - once socks get frozen, I switch to my spares.

If you are new to animal struggles, you should always check condition of your items after bandaging a wound. If you got off fairly quickly, chance is your clothes survived without damage, but most of the time they will get damaged. When some item is half-way, you will want to remove it and replace it with either a spare, or nothing, and just keep a close tabs on frostbite risk. Another reason why it is worth carrying spares gloves is the fact that you can only have equiped one set of gloves on you at a time - so if yours are damaged or ruined, you will want to have some spares, because frostbite on fingers is probably the fastest of them all. Also, pays to mention that during animal struggles, the outer layers gets much worse damage, usually. So, sometimes, it is wise to switch your outer layer for the inner layer just in case of another animal attack. Same with wetness - outer layer gets wet much faster then inner one. You can switch them to even it out a little bit.

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Ok. Thank you. Being that the version I had been playing was always sparse on cloth, I did what I learned to do in that one. I completely broke down all extra clothing as well as the extra bedroll for cloth. (Kind of a "old habits die hard".) I didn't stop to consider that, with so many changes and such, I would be dealing with different and new elements to gameplay that I might need to take into consideration and revise my "standard procedures" for items. I'm now learning that I have made numerous mistakes, and I question just how long I will be lasting on this first run-through of Survival mode. Even so, at least I will know it for the next run and learn my lessons as they come. Once again, I appreciate your time. As always.

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Yea, it pays to remember that cloth is now a renewable resource, through beachcombing, if it is really neccesary. But being mindful of not wasting it as a resource is still a good idea. I do break down my bedrolls from time to time as well - but I keep at least one extra spare. And in worst case scenario, one can always craft the bear bedroll too.

Also, due to curtains being tearable, cloth is very abundant in most games.

Edited by Mroz4k

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Right. The curtains were a welcomed addition, and I was very pleased to have that option. A bear bedroll? Hey, didn't even know or consider that was now an option though probably not just yet for me considering I'm on the easiest level. Perhaps I will come across a bear carcass? What luck would that be? Wonder if it provides enough to make one. Hmmm. 

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2 hours ago, CitrinePeridot said:

Right. The curtains were a welcomed addition, and I was very pleased to have that option. A bear bedroll? Hey, didn't even know or consider that was now an option though probably not just yet for me considering I'm on the easiest level. Perhaps I will come across a bear carcass? What luck would that be? Wonder if it provides enough to make one. Hmmm. 

You need two bear hides for the bedroll, and two to make a bear coat, but you won't be finding ANY dead bears, lol. You will have to learn to hunt bear and not die.

I recommend shooting in the face from an unreachable spot, or do it near a house, car, fishing hut, and then run inside...then wait for it to bleed out....

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No such luck, no bear carcasses in a game. You will have to kill them on your own - I think the best weapon for you to use might be a Flare gun - hitting an animal with that will make it bleed really fast and start running away. At least I think... I never hunt with a flare gun, only used it a couple time to scare off OB while playing the Hunted challenge... 
According to Wiki, the animal runs if you hit it with the flare gun. But take a note that you need to be fairly close to hit it because flare gun shoots in a close range. If you hit the animal and the flare sticks to them, it causes massive bleeding effect which will kill them.

I do remember someone called Distress pistol a bear killer.
Also, it takes two cured bear hides to make a bear bedroll.

You should try playing the Hunted challenge. It is scary for a while, but once you get a hold of yourself, it will help you get used to agressive animals quite well.

Edited by Mroz4k
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Ive never carried an extra set of clothing. The set you are wearing is nearly all the weight you can carry and still pick up things you find. Neither do I carry things to repair on the spot. If it's ruined, its ruined. I have on occasion lost items that could have been saved if i had been carrying cloth and a sewing kit, but I could not have afforded to stop and repair where i was anyway.  Usually, a wolf isnt going to even come close to ruining your clothes, if they were in good repair to start with. However, if a bear hunt goes badly, you can lose items that were at 100%, but its rare on lower difficulties, and you can usually make it home before suffering to badly from the loss.  As for bedrolls, you will find 8-10 of them in the world on most playthroughs except on Intsa-death, I mean Interloper.  Lastly, for some unknown reason, bears really love chewing on boots, and wolves will almost always tear clothing that didnt bite. Don't ask me how. If you get bit in the arm, check your pants for damage. If you get bit in the leg, he ruined your hat. I guess stuggling with a wolf really gets your clothes out of place.

Edited by TROY
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ROFL Wow! Ok. I'm glad you clued me in on that bizarre fact, because, sure enough, that's probably what I would check - the things that'd make sense given where the injury was. 

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5 minutes ago, CitrinePeridot said:

ROFL Wow! Ok. I'm glad you clued me in on that bizarre fact, because, sure enough, that's probably what I would check - the things that'd make sense given where the injury was. 

LOL!!!  Well, to be honest, it's most likely just a random roll for each thing. The bite on your body and the damaged clothing ae each determined independantly of each other by the game.  It SEEMS silly, that if your hand got bit, you scarf is damaged, but thats just the way it works. Its intuitive to think if the bite was on your hand, then its your mittens that are damaged, and they may be, a tiny bit, but the torn clothing is most likely NOT on the part of your body that needs medical attention.  I was being humorous, but it's just randomized.

Edited by TROY
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13 hours ago, TROY said:

LOL!!!  Well, to be honest, it's most likely just a random roll for each thing. The bite on your body and the damaged clothing ae each determined independantly of each other by the game.  It SEEMS silly, that if your hand got bit, you scarf is damaged, but thats just the way it works. Its intuitive to think if the bite was on your hand, then its your mittens that are damaged, and they may be, a tiny bit, but the torn clothing is most likely NOT on the part of your body that needs medical attention.  I was being humorous, but it's just randomized.

For some reason when I read this it made me think of survivorship bias and how damage sustained by returning British bombers in WW2 often led to false conclusions on where it was best to improve the armour of the bombers.

Suppose you sustain a bite on your chest but the piece of clothing most damaged was your mittens. Maybe the wolf tried to rip your hand apart but you mittens protected your hand, thus sustaining damage. When the wolf moved on to your chest, perhaps due to you jacket being partially unzipped or unbuttoned, it's jaws found little resistance in the way, thus damaging your skin much more than your jacket.

This is just hypothetical BTW... It's just a game, I'm quite sure that the biggest factor is the RNG.

Edited by shade_grey
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Whenever you go into a struggle, several articles of clothes are usually affected, the more on the harder difficulties. Not just a single item. At least thats what I observed, though one item seems to be damaged more then the rest. Maybe that is just me, not noticing the condition loss on items before getting into a struggle, but I would guess that more clothes get damaged.

Also, just because a wolf bit you in the hand, it doesnt mean it stopped there - could be, once it took you to a ground, you were protecting your head with your hand, it lunged at you, and ruined your headgear in the process. You succesfuly defended your neck and face, however the hand you were defending yourself with took a deep gash which started bleeding. You also sprained your ankle when you fell and struggled on the ground, nothing I would say is uncommon when you are fighting for your life.

13 hours ago, TROY said:

torn clothing is most likely NOT on the part of your body that needs medical attention.

I would say this also sort of makes sense, I always assumed that the torn clothing is in the place where you get the bruises and lacerations. Especially, in order to get lacerations, your skin had to come in contact with something sharp, and only way that can happen is if your clothes got torn in that place in the first place.

I decided to do more research on the wolf attacks on humans, the wikipedia (as unrealiable source it often is) on wolf attacks points out something we should keep in mind - that not all types of attack are the same. What we experience in TLD are both defensive and predatorial attacks. In TLD there is probably no difference in between them, but once I can, I want to do research on this because it interests me. 
In real life, two types of attack interest me - defensive aka provoked attacks, and predatorial. You could say that wolf, being disturbed from his kill, or by entering the area way too close to him, is an attack provoked. You could have avoided the wolf, but you didnt, so it attacked you in order to defend itself.
And predatorial would be when you are carrying meat, and it is lured to you by the smell of a fresh meat, which in their eyes imitates wounded animal, an easy kill. Or when you just happen to be stalked, and the wolves decided to lunge at you to test your ability to defend yourself, something the wiki calls "investigative" attack. 

In real life, there is a big difference in between those - defensive attacks will mostly be quick, and the aim is to wound and discourage you from threathening the wolf in a first place. The wolf will probably not go for your weak points, like neck, because their intent is not to kill you, only slow you down. Wiki also says that if such encounter ends up in death of victim, the victim is likely not eaten right away, often not for a while. 
Predatorial encounter is different - their intent is to kill you. They will attempt to attack at your weak points and you will instinctively defend those. In real life this is not very likely to happen for fullgrown humans, of course the wolves dont pick on things that are way bigger then them, but kids are often attacked even nowadays, especially if on their own. 

Back to the point - I would say that a lot of the clothing would be damaged since you go down on your back, lacerations and bruises indicate that the struggle was intense experience. Just cause you get bleeding on your arm, doesnt mean the rest of the body is unscathed.

Edited by Mroz4k
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17 hours ago, TROY said:

Lastly, for some unknown reason, bears really love chewing on boots

That could almost be a maxim for what to expect from TLD predators...

"Bears really love chewing on your boots.. wolves really love chewing on your head.."

Edited by JAFO
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17 hours ago, TROY said:

Ive never carried an extra set of clothing. The set you are wearing is nearly all the weight you can carry and still pick up things you find.

Likewise.. but @Mroz4k's suggestion of carrying spare sports socks, driving gloves and a cotton toque is an excellent idea.. as he points out, the total weight of all three is just 0.3kg, which is small enough as makes no real difference. It's cheap insurance against frostbite, and I like the idea very much.

Edited by JAFO
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I sometimes carry extra clothing depends on where i am in the game. maybe extra socks/gloves or pants.

I tend to collect and leave clothing at all main bases/ main camps.

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Those are all good & reasonable observations & points. I believe I'm going to go with the socks, gloves, & toque idea as that is something I have not yet learned to successfully keep track of. I've gotten myself into a pickle or two already due to this. I've read elsewhere the break down of how and when that risk sets in, but I'm feeling a tad swamped with everything there is to keep track of. It would be nice to have a "fall back" for when I fail to keep that at optimal whether through my lack of experience or the elements. Thank you all for your insights.  :-)

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5 minutes ago, CitrinePeridot said:

Those are all good & reasonable observations & points. I believe I'm going to go with the socks, gloves, & toque idea as that is something I have not yet learned to successfully keep track of. I've gotten myself into a pickle or two already due to this. I've read elsewhere the break down of how and when that risk sets in, but I'm feeling a tad swamped with everything there is to keep track of. It would be nice to have a "fall back" for when I fail to keep that at optimal whether through my lack of experience or the elements. Thank you all for your insights.  :-)

Just play the game you you will find what to do or not what to do :)

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