Kaiservadin

Compass ( Enables minimap )

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Yes. A compass would be beneficial no doubt. When we become more acquainted with that layout of the land, we can use it to navigate better. Yet, I think also we need to remember to pay attention to landmarks. It's not enough to know we wish to go North. We need to remember to look for the "downed tree" or whatever.

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4 hours ago, CitrinePeridot said:

Yes. A compass would be beneficial no doubt. When we become more acquainted with that layout of the land, we can use it to navigate better. Yet, I think also we need to remember to pay attention to landmarks. It's not enough to know we wish to go North. We need to remember to look for the "downed tree" or whatever.

After playing for awhile i don't need bonifires to lead me where to go i just remember the path to take.

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3 minutes ago, Kaiservadin said:

After playing for awhile i don't need bonifires to lead me where to go i just remember the path to take.

Being new to this version of the game and having played the Sandbox version (which was out dated) for less than 6 months, I am basically starting over. So, I'm not there yet on that. I have no doubt one reaches that point.

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Just now, CitrinePeridot said:

Being new to this version of the game and having played the Sandbox version (which was out dated) for less than 6 months, I am basically starting over. So, I'm not there yet on that. I have no doubt one reaches that point.

Yep takes awhile to get used to, story mode seems to help.

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15 hours ago, Kaiservadin said:

We need something to enable a minimap or at least show where you are at on the map with like a arrow.

When you sketch on the charcoal map, it will centre on your current position, if that helps.

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Compass might not be a bad thing, but it should not enable the minimap. We dont need it, at all. The game has minimalistic HUD, I see no reason to change that. Besides, being able to figure out where you are based on landmarks is sort of a neccesary skill one needs to acquire in TLD. But it comes with experience.

Minimap with exact player location would make the game much easier, and I dont think that is something most people want - the fact that TLD is such a brutal game in times is exactly why we all love it.
 

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Compass would / should not work during a magnetic storm as depicted by the game, though.

Which is why I hope to one day see a realistic skybox that would enable us to do celestial navigation :)

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I'm actually with Mroz4k on this one. Please no minimap, it would really go against what this game is. But a compass would be good. Just a thing you can hold in your hand that tells you where north is. Unless there is an actual reason in-game for why compasses no longer work.

Basically we already have a compass, but spamming F8 until you know what direction you're moving inconveniently floods your desktop with screenshots, at least in my case :D

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If you search for "compass" in the search function you get about 19 pages of results, this has been discussed quite thoroughly.

First of all, from a Lore point of view it probably wouldn't work due to the geoMAGNETIC disaster. Regarding gameplay it would no longer require from you to learn your surroundings and markers to navigate through fog and blizzards. Just turn in the desired direction and walk until you get there, that's not why the devs have put broken trees and stuff everywhere around for you to memorize ;)

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7 minutes ago, ChillPlayer said:

If you search for "compass" in the search function you get about 19 pages of results, this has been discussed quite thoroughly.

First of all, from a Lore point of view it probably wouldn't work due to the geoMAGNETIC disaster. Regarding gameplay it would no longer require from you to learn your surroundings and markers to navigate through fog and blizzards. Just turn in the desired direction and walk until you get there, that's not why the devs have put broken trees and stuff everywhere around for you to memorize ;)

Rather than memorizing stuff, nowadays I simply leave trails of abundantly available stones from place to place. One stone every 10 yards or so and you will be able to track them even during a blizzard.

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1 hour ago, Hesha said:

Rather than memorizing stuff, nowadays I simply leave trails of abundantly available stones from place to place. One stone every 10 yards or so and you will be able to track them even during a blizzard.

yes this helps until you know the maps in and out, which will happen sooner than later ;)

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I've been playing for over two years, I do know the maps fairly well, but I have been stranded in different places than I was aiming for during blizzards regardless, when you have to basically touch off the tree before you can see it.

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I have done little bit of a research on this, turns out compasses are affected by the ionization in the atmosphere... and during such effects, they act crazily. But the idea remains... is this going to be matter during non aurora? I dont think so - because unless the remaining solar radiation in the air was high enough, magnetic pole is going to be seriously stronger. 

But during Aurora, and some time after it, the compass would probably not work. 

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But then again during Aurora, we always have perfect weather, right? So we don't need a compass, really.

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Here's the thing: @Mroz4k is correct about compasses only being effected by the event while it's happening, and I absolutely agree with him 100% about mini maps.  I always wished for a compass. As an outdoors person, correct use of map and compass is the first and most important skill, and learning to navigate roughly, without a compass, is second. Knowing ways to know your direction of travel has no replacement. 

Despite all the calls for one, Raph has always made it abundantly clear that it will never be added. He doesn't want one in the game, regardless of any number of reasons given that it could/should/might work or why it's wanted. It's a shame, because many people who might otherwise enjoy the game simply cannot navigate without one and the game becomes hopelessly unenjoyable for them. I can't offer hard numbers on percentages of players, but I've played other games over the years with multitudes of people who were simply paralyzed without some way of knowing which direction to go. 

If I was a developer, lost customers alone would be enough justification to find a reason for one to work in my game, at least most of the time. 

I had a horrible time learning to get around PV when it was added, because my mind automatically transfers real world knowledge to the game. In most games, it holds true.  My brain would tell me, the barn is east of the farmhouse, since there's a waterfall there, and rivers flow south, I need to go right...  and pretty soon there'd be a blizzard, and pretty soon I'd be starting over...

Edited by TROY

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Pointer? Compass? Please no. This would make the game to simple. A number areas owe their challenge to the disorienting effect of dense fog and blizzards. This  threat would completely be nullified.

 A number of times i got caught in a blizzard or dense fog struggeling to find my way back using a simple map and some landmarks. Heck 100m from one of my shelters there is a campfire i made in pure despartion to wait it out. Going back in dense fog and finding fresh bear tracks on the path if followed forced me to detour. With a compass it would not even be remotely dangerous.

A minimap would simply be to intrusive.

The only thing i would like is the chance to find a basic map of an area, containing the fixed structures as a cheap tourist map would. Roads, houses, lookouts, mine entrances but not the ice huts, mobile homes, caves etc. As the mapping you do would be adding more detail to this map it is still a usefull exersice and it would also leave the cartographer achievements intact as it will not point out all areas.

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Do people really have such issues with blizzards? Last time I got lost in a blizzard was sometimes in 2015... There is ways that make it plausibly survivable - by simply walking in front of you, not turning (which in real life is impossible to do as most people tend to step on their right foot more surely, which means they are going into right all the time slightly, but in normal conditions the brain can compensate for it and we walk in straight line, but not during zero visibility), you can continue working forward untill you find some landmark, or at least come across a terrain where you can possibly shelter up (I guess my walks during late games where I just walk around the map, memorizing natural shelters helps with this as well)

4 hours ago, Xanthos said:

The only thing i would like is the chance to find a basic map of an area, containing the fixed structures as a cheap tourist map would. Roads, houses, lookouts, mine entrances but not the ice huts, mobile homes, caves etc. As the mapping you do would be adding more detail to this map it is still a usefull exersice and it would also leave the cartographer achievements intact as it will not point out all areas.

Not really because people often only want to have a map for the sake of navigation, few players around use the charcoal map as a utility. If they found a basic map, they wouldnt bother charcoaling up their own. 

Compass would be much better addition in this sense. Its still a useful tool to have even without a map, and it would give mapping a whole new meaning. It would also mostly have the use for newer players as the more experienced ones have the maps memorized... and during emergency situations. I imagine it could be "badly visible" during blizzard or fog to make it more challenging to use it, even could work somewhat sporadically during a blizzard (as a result of remaining electromagnetical radiation in the air) - but could still work. 

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On 9/6/2017 at 1:20 AM, Mroz4k said:

Compass might not be a bad thing, but it should not enable the minimap. We dont need it, at all. The game has minimalistic HUD, I see no reason to change that. Besides, being able to figure out where you are based on landmarks is sort of a neccesary skill one needs to acquire in TLD. But it comes with experience.

Minimap with exact player location would make the game much easier, and I dont think that is something most people want - the fact that TLD is such a brutal game in times is exactly why we all love it.
 

I'm with you there, anyone who's played this game for a significant amount of time will learn the maps through the constant trekking to and fro. I'm also in agreement with the idea that whatever geomagnetic disaster has occurred is also most likely going to mess up a compass anyway.

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Do people really have such issues with blizzards? Last time I got lost in a blizzard was sometimes in 2015... There is ways that make it plausibly survivable - by simply walking in front of you, not turning (which in real life is impossible to do as most people tend to step on their right foot more surely, which means they are going into right all the time slightly, but in normal conditions the brain can compensate for it and we walk in straight line, but not during zero visibility), you can continue working forward untill you find some landmark, or at least come across a terrain where you can possibly shelter up (I guess my walks during late games where I just walk around the map, memorizing natural shelters helps with this as well)

I'm a new player so I don't know my way around yet. With a feel temperature of -70 in the late afternoon there is little time to find shelter during the blizzard. And putting down a fire means spending the night there. That will require wood in order to survive. And as said there are occasions you will have to divert or face Winny the Pooh. (currently living in pleasant valley)

Quote

Not really because people often only want to have a map for the sake of navigation, few players around use the charcoal map as a utility. If they found a basic map, they wouldnt bother charcoaling up their own. 

You inspired me here and i tried again to use the in game map for navigation. It was a failure as the map does not show a number of very important landmarks as: rural roads, drive ways, sheds, tree formations etc. I did manage to survive but that had nothing to do with using the map to navigate. Actually in some places it is like the comic below (i don't think translation is needed):

Lost on the arctic

The in game map really needs to be improved. My character is creating the map in order to navigate and survive, missing out on a large number of obvious landmarks is a bit silly.

 

 

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23 minutes ago, Xanthos said:

I'm a new player so I don't know my way around yet. With a feel temperature of -70 in the late afternoon.

where did you get such low temperatures on which difficulty? Not even up on the summit in Interloper have I've seen such a low feels like, even in beginners clothing. Not saying it's not possible, just curious to know.

Edited by ChillPlayer

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1 hour ago, Xanthos said:

You inspired me here and i tried again to use the in game map for navigation. It was a failure as the map does not show a number of very important landmarks as: rural roads, drive ways, sheds, tree formations etc. I did manage to survive but that had nothing to do with using the map to navigate. Actually in some places it is like the comic below (i don't think translation is needed):

Lost on the arctic

The in game map really needs to be improved. My character is creating the map in order to navigate and survive, missing out on a large number of obvious landmarks is a bit silly.

I am afraid you misunderstood me. I am "for" the current map, I love using it as a utility. I am sorry you have such issues with memorizing the maps, I know how struggling it can be to learn them, but honestly, map knowledge will not save you if you are already in a blizzard - only before it actually comes. What you need to learn is to look for the weather changes that indicate worse weather - there are plenty of them in the game. 
The game can be used for navigation, but you were right it is hard from being perfect. It can really be used as a navigation tool during good visibility when you can spot the landmarks that are already written on map.

But the way I use maps is the way they were intended to be used - when I am out, exploring new region, and I come across a bundle of saplings, I dont tear them down immidiatedly and carry them with me (that way, I get to turn back soon and go to my base, having explored nothing at all) - I will take out a charcoal, and scribble a map piece in that location to know to come back later when I am on a "recovery quest" to gather remaining supplies in the world, or when I am bored and have nothing better to do in the late-game. That is how the charcoal map was intended to be used. Another good example is "mapping logs" a day before going out to gather firewood, so you know where the richiest logs are and can focus on gathering those.

If you have an issue learning the maps, and dont mind that you will "spoil the game a bit for yourself", you can download and learn a lot about the individual regions from maps, created by Winterberry_toarda on Steam.

I like the fact there are no ingame maps - important TLD skill to learn for newer players is how to "memorize" the land through observation of landmarks. It is a great skill to apply to real world too. Finding the landmarks, and be able to figure out where roughly you are based on your distance from them. 

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Actually i am pretty good with maps because of my motorized hobbies. It is because of this experience that i notice that these important landmarks are missing. Now that i think of it, there should already be a compass in the game, the sun. Never paid attention to it so far. I normally navigated on the sun when touring around in my home country was quite a lot of fun to test my high-school geography knowledge.

Using a map in game has already saved me numerous times form certain death. So yes maps work fine even if visibility is limited. Basic navigation is not that difficult provided you have a reasonable clue what your starting point and direction is. Also make sure that your destination is near a well defined landmark. See the 2 examples below, the moment I decide to make the detour I need the map to figure out the route with the highest probability to find the required landmarks. It happens actually quite often as I have a blizzard every 2 or 3 days.

First example: blizzard so i head to the river and turn right, follow the river until it splits, follow it to the right . At the 2nd bridge climb up and enter the house where I set up. It was nearly impossibly for this one to go wrong. All these items are on the in-game map btw.

Second: dense fog, need to detour because of bear track (don't want to fight with Teddy again). So 90 degrees right turn. Walk until I find a specific configuration (corpse with trees and rocks). Turn 90 degrees left walk until i hit a rural road. Follow it to the right for additional confirmation with the main road. Got that, turn 180 degrees around and walk to the farm. As said the rural road is not drawn by my character which seems very foolish/incompetent to me as it leads directly to "my house" (same for potential live saving shelters around). In some cases the bridge is drawn but not the road that goes over it. This is breaking the suspension of disbelieve a bit  for me.

The main issue with navigating like this is time. Finding my way via the landmarks means detours. With a feels like temperature of -70 I need to stop and warm up every now and then while the amount of wood and time before night I have is limited. But so far I did not run into the issue that I had to camp outside for the night I have always managed to find my way home. Therefore I don't know what happens if fatigue stays at 0 for a very long time.

The sole purpose of a map is provide a graphical layout of how things are oriented. This is by definition usable for navigation. Actually you say yourself that you use it for navigation by marking places on the map so you know what to find where. If you look at the map to see where to find those saplings you are implicitly using the map to navigate. Claiming that a map is not intended for navigation is a disclaimer a lawyer would use.

And yes I have the maps of Winterberry but they are actually so good and detailed with all the loot locations that it takes away the fun of exploring. I would prefer to explore a detailed map like that myself and only have something with a more global overview at the beginning just to give me an idea of what is roughly there. For experienced players it would not matter that much as their map knowledge will be a lot more detailed than what the global map showing. And it would not be that strange. I have bought maps from petrol stations (are in game) and I got a number from information centers (are also in game).

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5 hours ago, Xanthos said:

And yes I have the maps of Winterberry but they are actually so good and detailed with all the loot locations that it takes away the fun of exploring.

Most of Whiteberry's maps are actually available in 3 different versions.. Complete, which shows everything, Explorer, which is similar but doesn't have starting spawn points, man-made loot or caches shown, and Bare, which shows just the terrain and building locations, with nothing else. The bare map might be more what you're after. Here's an example of the Bare-bones map for ML;

 

59ba0372abbd5_MysteryLake-BareMap.thumb.jpg.fb3b204d4ee7f9922fafd6b6ff3c3dee.jpg

Edited by JAFO
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