Arzanot

The road to 500

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18 minutes ago, ChillPlayer said:

In Interloper though? I never sleep there for long without a fire

Well, considering the Interloper is starting off as very cold indoors to begin with, Mountaineers will not really be survivable without a fire, plus temperature is also gonna get worse and worse. 

As for the "next free cave" - I wouldnt say so. If you can run down-hill towards the boxes, and then go up a bit, you will come right by the exit of the first cave. Its a bit cheezy to run downhill like that, but you gotta do what you gotta do, especially on Interloper.

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I don't know what he's going on about now @JAFO, already on my list.

I found the article by Googling "freezing to death sleep myth."

I don't have the time or patients for people who refute everything even after being presented with alternate evidence.

There's a couple of those types in these parts....

Pretty sure he presented the same argument and linked the same things last time this was brought up by someone.

If you start freezing to death after going to bed warm, you would start violently shivering in the beginning of the process which would wake you up....as it should.

If you decide to ignore your body's warning about the situation and take no action like creating fire, turning on the heat, getting blankets, and then just go back to bed after hypothermia is setting in....then that's on you. That's how people freeze to death....

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Wow, you are exceptionally grumpytoday. 

I know you had a similar meltdown on a different post where you accused me of mumbling and arguing with you that the reason why blood was dissapearing was because your graphics were surely the problem which was a slander, since all I did was try to find another possible explanation, which you also refuted the moment you mentioned your settings (I had only a crappy laptop so my experience was always with lowest settings).

Funny thing is, you are the only one who is mumbling around here, and you are irritating me to continue on an argument with you.

You want an example? You will get one. This January in UK, 40 thousand more people died in their homes to freezing then it is usual. Were they hypothermic already when they went to sleep? No, doubtful. They were fine, but their houses are not as insulated and fuel prices went up, so many people who were either poor or tried to save up on it died as a result to the extreme temperatures that hit them. This is in tons of newspaper articles available online, here is one:
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/sian-welby-/winter-cold-deaths_b_8987352.html
Now that is mostly old people or people who were sick, true, but there are a few mentions in the articles circling around of entire families freezing to death because they couldnt afford heating up.
https://sleepbetter.org/the-dangers-of-sleeping-in-the-cold/

Read up:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermoregulation
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermoregulation_in_humans
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homeostasis#Core_body_temperature
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypothalamus

Now, if you managed to comprehend at least part of it: Hypothalamus is the centre of brain which handles thermoregulation. It is main function in this regard is to connect the fast "nerve system" with the slow "endocrine system" (hormonal, basically). The feeling of chill on your skin is not done through nervous system, because that system is going to shut itself off to conserve temperature - so it is done through slowly releasing hormones. After these hormones activate the hypothalamus, then finally the brain sends an order to start shiverring. By now you are probably either dead or suffering badly. Shiverring can heat up, but doesnt mean it will do. 

Now you can continue beating about the bush and yell that I am wrong and you are right or you can admit to being wrong yourself, shut up and be a nice little puppy. I had enough of it.

Yes, shivering is a thing. No it will not wake you up, most likely. It is meant to heat you up, not warn you. And even if it did, by the time it triggers you are already hypothermic, so waking up is harder and harder. 

To put it simply.

Edited by Mroz4k

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3 hours ago, Mroz4k said:

Wow, you are exceptionally grumpytoday. 

I know you had a similar meltdown on a different post where you accused me of mumbling and arguing with you that the reason why blood was dissapearing was because your graphics were surely the problem which was a slander, since all I did was try to find another possible explanation, which you also refuted the moment you mentioned your settings (I had only a crappy laptop so my experience was always with lowest settings).

Funny thing is, you are the only one who is mumbling around here, and you are irritating me to continue on an argument with you.

You want an example? You will get one. This January in UK, 40 thousand more people died in their homes to freezing then it is usual. Were they hypothermic already when they went to sleep? No, doubtful. They were fine, but their houses are not as insulated and fuel prices went up, so many people who were either poor or tried to save up on it died as a result to the extreme temperatures that hit them. This is in tons of newspaper articles available online, here is one:
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/sian-welby-/winter-cold-deaths_b_8987352.html
Now that is mostly old people or people who were sick, true, but there are a few mentions in the articles circling around of entire families freezing to death because they couldnt afford heating up.
https://sleepbetter.org/the-dangers-of-sleeping-in-the-cold/

Read up:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermoregulation
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermoregulation_in_humans
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homeostasis#Core_body_temperature
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypothalamus

Now, if you managed to comprehend at least part of it: Hypothalamus is the centre of brain which handles thermoregulation. It is main function in this regard is to connect the fast "nerve system" with the slow "endocrine system" (hormonal, basically). The feeling of chill on your skin is not done through nervous system, because that system is going to shut itself off to conserve temperature - so it is done through slowly releasing hormones. After these hormones activate the hypothalamus, then finally the brain sends an order to start shiverring. By now you are probably either dead or suffering badly. Shiverring can heat up, but doesnt mean it will do. 

Now you can continue beating about the bush and yell that I am wrong and you are right or you can admit to being wrong yourself, shut up and be a nice little puppy. I had enough of it.

Yes, shivering is a thing. No it will not wake you up, most likely. It is meant to heat you up, not warn you. And even if it did, by the time it triggers you are already hypothermic, so waking up is harder and harder. 

To put it simply.

Mumbling? How does one mumble in text exactly?

How do you know they DIDN'T  get hypothermia first and then die? They most likely all did if there was no way to get heat and there was no solution to the problem. They most likely all went to bed after already freezing all day and night because they had no heat. Your proof isn't proof of anything other than they froze to death. They clearly didn't go to bed warm without any heat....

Your "proof" has nothing to do with the question in this debate. The question is if you go to bed warm and not freezing, would you wake up due to violent shaking aka shivering? The answer to that question is YES...duh...it's a common myth that you would not.

About the blood drops how is it my graphics card if the same thing is happening to everyone else playing the game, most likely including you? I put the potential answer in my question by asking if it was a new change added by Wintermute? The answer was yes, they changed it. If you don't know the answer, say "I don't know my graphics on my computer is crap." Not declare it MUST be my graphics....that's making an uninformed assumption. Like you often appear to do.

It's much more plausible that you are one of those people who simply cannot admit when they are wrong...

Lastly slander is verbal....in text it's called libel. I don't recall committing slander because I don't recall ever talking to you.

Edited by Thrasador

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10 hours ago, Thrasador said:

Lastly slander is verbal....in text it's called libel. I don't recall committing slander because I don't recall ever talking to you.

Guess you didnt notice, english is my third of six languages I know at the moment. I am not going to apologize for using some words incorrectly on occasion.
And the fact that you have to attack those words to give yourself an extra reason to respond is just sad.
Do you know that saying? "Whenever you have a need to attack someone´s way of speech or grammar mistakes, it is a sign you have already lost that argument"
Thing is, I actually can admit when I am wrong, and I am wrong quite often. Not this time which is exactly why I am even continuing this conversation, othervise I would just ignore your last contribution to it. And despite trying to hide it, this argument to you is not really about me or you being wrong, it is just personal to you at this point.

Because someone somewhere called "dying of freezing when asleep" a myth, you believe it to be true. That in itself is a wrong. I gave you compelling evidence to prove you wrong, by pointing out how it works, and you will instead continue on.

The only myth anyone is pushing through in here is you: The fact that shivering is quaranteed to wake you up. Which it isnt. Albeit there wouldnt be so many people who go in the evening to sleep and never wake up because their heater broke down or wasnt working, and their houses were not insulated enough but the temperature outside went down rapidly. 

When feeling cold, the receptors in your skin and outer layers of your body will record this, and as soon as your core temperature goes down to a certain level (this is called hypothermia = core temperature below certain point, in this case early hypothermia) a signal is sent to your brain, to hypothalamus, through endocrinal system. There, the signal is converted to neurons, and through neural system the body muscles are told to start shivering - (low intensity shivering) - which warms the body up at the expense of calories, and attempts to keep the core temperature at constant rate. This is all subcontious behaviour and none of it requires your body to be awake, so no, you do not wake up because of shivering. However, because it is a "movement", the fact that your body is moving MAY, stressing out MAY wake you up. That really depends on individual person and how soundly they sleep, or how tired they were when they went sleeping. 

Shrivering is not an alarm that is supposed to wake you up. It is a response of your body to hypothermia, an action that is intended to warm you up.

Now, how come some people might be dead by that point? Because the initial "signal" from skin receptors to your brain is very slow. It is done through archaic endocrinal system which is A) very slow, and B) prone to fail regularly. To say it in a stupid-proof way: Hormones tell your brain that your body is too cold. And problem is hormones take a lot of time to be "made" and "delivered" to their location. Unlike neurons which is basically electro-chemical signal that travels through your body in less then a second, hormonal message can sometimes take well over a half of an hour to be delivered And because you are getting colder, the waiting time for it to be delivered prolongs even further.
Sometimes it triggers when it doesnt have to, sometimes it doesnt trigger at all. Depending on the cold outside, if the sleeping person loses too much core temperature before starting to shiver, they will enter the advanced hypothermia state during which all bodily functions are gradually getting slower and slower, and chances of waking up fall gradually down.

It is something different when you are awake and getting cold. You awareness of enviroment provides additional information to your brain and brain is better able to coordinate actions like shivering to warm you up, it happens sooner then when sleeping.  

Anyone reading this conversation can make a picture of who of us is actually right. I consider this topic and argument closed and I will not respond further, as I believe it is pretty much just a personal thing to you at this point. You want to argue, with me, doesnt matter about what. And you are trying to pull more people into it as well, which is what I simply will not have.  I have wasted enough of my own time already on this.

You once told me in private this is something you wish to stop doing, so stop trying to do it.

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To me it sounds like your all trying to out do each other, some others more than others.

Relax it's not a competition.

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