Cartograloper

[JAFO]

2 hours ago, LucidFugue said:

I swear sometimes they have the ability to teleport closer to the player when you're not looking. 

You wouldn't be the first person to say so, either..

[LucidFugue]

7 hours ago, JAFO said:

Ouch.. very sorry to hear that, mate.. Best wishes with number 6.

Your condition alone may have been sufficient cause for the attack. Just as with real wolves, the TLD ones can sense weakness, and are more likely to attack in such situations.

Is that so? That supports @MueckE's recommendations to be more conservative and treat sub 30 condition as a no go situation for adventuring. 

Once again, impatience leads to death! 

[JAFO]

3 hours ago, LucidFugue said:

Is that so?

Yup.. being heavily overburdened, or exhausted are also things that wolves will try to take advantage of.

[LucidFugue]

I thought exhaustion/overburdened mostly meant you couldn't prevent them from closing to engagement range due to movement penalties. Especially if you have wind in your face or an incline. You need mobility to have a chance at escaping wolves. My understanding goes something like this:

Wolf detects player: very slim chance to get scared and run. Otherwise, begin stalking. 

During stalking: Keep pace with player. Speed up if getting farther away but still with LOS.  Fair chance to switch to engage if player is sprinting, irrespective of distance to player. Speed up pace if player is not watching (random delay in this, i.e. It's not as if the second you turn your back they move faster, but this is the teleporting behaviour people mention. You assume they should be at least the same distance if not further, yet they've closed a good 10-20 metres in a short period of time). 

Upon reaching engagement range: If player had a campfire, run scared. If player has a lit flare, stand off. Else, charge. 

Starvation/exhaustion/overburdened caused additional condition damage once engaged. So basically, there was nothing explicit in the detection/stalking mechanics tied to the player's need bars or condition. They were included in the wolf struggle mechanic itself. 

It's obviously much more complex and nuanced, but that's broadly the model I've been working from. I can avoid at least 95% of wolf close encounters, and usually the fails are down to cresting hills right into wolves, or getting sloppy when evading. Evading comes down to keeping a watch on then while moving away and using natural landscape features to break line of sight at a reasonable distance and maintain lost line of sight. 

That, or pathing a wolf into some other prey and forcing a target switch. 

 

[Thrasador]

4 hours ago, LucidFugue said:

I thought exhaustion/overburdened mostly meant you couldn't prevent them from closing to engagement range due to movement penalties. Especially if you have wind in your face or an incline. You need mobility to have a chance at escaping wolves. My understanding goes something like this

 

@JAFOis probably getting that from one of the wikis. One of them does state all those things as affecting whether or not a wolf will decide to jump you....I'm not saying he's wrong either. Some of the wiki stuff can be out of date, and it was in the wiki I like less....but even the older stuff is often accurate....that page was updated 11 days ago, so it probably is right:

https://thelongdark.gamepedia.com/Wolves

"Having high condition will increase the likelihood that the wolf will stay away. A player that is suffering from any affliction, overcumbered, tired, hypothermic, hungry or dehydrated will probably not be able to scare the wolf, and will be attacked."

That may even be why a wolf I encountered a day ago went right to charging me from far away, and I complained to him about it ....I had over 45 kilos on me and couldn't run. I was in VERY good shape other than that though....

[LucidFugue]

I'm not sure I trust that content without proper sourcing. The sections on the struggle itself don't reference the analysis work done on average wolf struggle times by tool, and more recently the struggle has been changed from clicking as fast as possible to a rhythmic pattern, hasn't it? At least, I remember when the ideal strategy was click macros/autofire scripts that near instantly ended every struggle. 

I get that a lot of this is theorycrafting. Unless you dig into the scripting, or do extensive testing, you only have anecdotal evidence to build a behaviour model from. 

But I'm not even sure the scent mechanic respects wind direction/strength, for example. The wiki says so, but has no reference to either official statements or at least a community analysis thread. 

[Thrasador]

3 minutes ago, LucidFugue said:

I'm not sure I trust that content without proper sourcing. The sections on the struggle itself don't reference the analysis work done on average wolf struggle times by tool, and more recently the struggle has been changed from clicking as fast as possible to a rhythmic pattern, hasn't it? At least, I remember when the ideal strategy was click macros/autofire scripts that near instantly ended every struggle. 

I get that a lot of this is theorycrafting. Unless you dig into the scripting, or do extensive testing, you only have anecdotal evidence to build a behaviour model from. 

But I'm not even sure the scent mechanic respects wind direction/strength, for example. The wiki says so, but has no reference to either official statements or at least a community analysis thread. 

Well you can still click rapidly as long as it is at a steady rate. I know this because I use my gamepad on Turbo and it fills the bar very rapidly when I hold down the struggle tap button. The people who update the wiki obviously haven't read Timberwolf's tool struggle tests. Anyone can update the wiki....including one of us who do know about the tools. I fixed the Old Man's Beard description in that wiki, because it no longer stopped blood loss.

Wind does effect scent I have tested that one, and I tested wolf detection when carrying different amounts of cooked meat when you have 0-5 pieces and no scent bar.

[JAFO]

30 minutes ago, LucidFugue said:

I'm not sure I trust that content without proper sourcing.

I doubt proper sourcing will ever be found for many of the things in the wikis.. Some of it is based on various comments made at times by Raphael or other Hinterland staff, etc, across many different mediums, such as forum, steam or twitter posts, and so on. Some of it is based on observation and experimentation, and so on..

Observational evidence, such as @Thrasador's experience of being charged from extreme distance, would tend to support the idea that wolves will take advantage of what they perceive as "weakness" on the player's part.

 

34 minutes ago, LucidFugue said:

more recently the struggle has been changed from clicking as fast as possible to a rhythmic pattern, hasn't it?

No.. I don't believe it's ever been changed. Just that most people have never understood the mechanic, and always rapid-clicked, even though they didn't need to. Click macros and so on still work just fine.. I suspect because they are (while fast) just very rhythmic by virtue of being precisely timed.

[LucidFugue]

Cartograloper 6 / Day 3

Attempting to follow in Drifterman's footsteps, I set out with hacksaw in hand and opened the crates at the wing for food supplies. I've since recalled these were not considered worth the effort. It's the clothing container at the lower engine I want. I distract a wolf with some stone throwing and grab the loot, heading into the cave. I find matches on the body in there and start a fire near the upper exit to warm up. I check Andre's Peak off my list and collect a rabbit to keep starvation at bay. Then I deploy the mountaineer's rope from the mountaineer's hut and head back to rest. I secured coffee and tea, and the spare clothing gives me 3 cloth. 

Resting up to 96% condition, I now have plenty of firewood (5 cedar, 40 sticks, 7 coal) and 35 cat tails. The hacksaw is at 56%. I believe the next leg of the journey is over the fallen tree bridge and up to deer clearing, before pressing on to secluded shelf, tearing up remaining clothes to make a snow shelter, and hitting the summit. Alternately, with my coffee I might be able to just brew coffee in the secluded shelf cave and hit the summit immediately. That said, I still need to get to Eric's falls and the hollow cave before I can leave the mountain for good. With luck, I'll be out of here before a week is up. 

[cullam]

Quick check on your objective of getting the Achievement: Is the Achievement for mapping all the locations that are named on the map itself, or all ~200 locations in the game? 

[LucidFugue]

My best guess is mapping the outdoor locations that appear in the journal and impact world discovery %. At least, that's how I'm treating the objective. I have a tracking spreadsheet where I am noting which locations I have visited and which I have mapped. But I won't know for sure until the achievement pops, (or doesn't!).

[LucidFugue]

Cartograloper 6/6

I made it to the summit and lugged everything from the plane back to the mountaineer's hut, but not without significant condition loss. I returned home with 21% condition and a double sprain, having taken the snowbank pathway down rather than attempt to use climbing ropes. I was exhausted anyway. I left the snow shelter up there, abandoning the supplies used to make it. 

I spent the next 2 days recovering. I studied a cooking and carcass harvesting book, and prepared all the many rose hips and reishi mushrooms I had gathered during my trip. I also turned a spare pair of socks into 2 bandages and prepared 2 old man's beard bandages. Although I was hoping to get out of here quickly, I'm telling myself to take it easy. I have 41 cat tails & 3 boxes of crackers. I chased the crystal lake deer into the crystal lake wolf, though I missed my shot with the distress pistol. I have to wait for some fresh gut to cure, and I can then craft myself rabbitskin mittens. I still have a few spots to map, so I'll take it slowly and try to set out only when I'm in the best of shape.

My hacksaw has only 16% condition and I have no toolkit, so harvesting deer risks breaking it. But I can survive without it if it comes to that. I still have the hammer. I have 40 matches and a firestriker at 86% condition, giving me plenty of fires. I imagine I will be out of here long before I find myself running short of anything.