ImNew

Crazy Wolves

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TL;DR: Wolves should act more like Wolves and less like death machines from hell.

I love this game. I have stayed away from survival Games in the past due to their cheasy environments (zombies and islands with dinosaurs) however this game keeps itself grounded in what's realistic and believable and I love that. The only thing I don't love is the wolf AI. Look, don't get me wrong, I like a challenge. I'm all for week long blizzards and little to no food anywhere, however the wolves in this game are just downright crazy. I dread encounters with these things, not because they are all very lethal and can kill you with ease, but because they will spot you from 3.5 km away and hunt you down to the ends of God's green earth just because you exist. This IMO kills the immersion and overall flow of the game. In stead of sneaking past a wolf or trying to shoot and kill it, I often find myself walking around entire Montana just to avoid them. I think they should be tweaked to display a more natural behavior, some suggestions I have are:

1. FIGHT OR FLIGHT: Right now, all wolves are gonna try and kill you if you are spotted by them. I think a mechanic where some wolves attack and some don't would make for an overall more realistic experience. Some factors that could influence the fight or flight could be proximity to food (wolves being more likely to attack if you're standing next to a dead deer) nber of wolves (1-2 may run while 3-4 will attack as a pack) as well as player actions suck as killing other wolves or injuring a wolf (they should be less likely to attack if you just killed 3 of their friends). Time of day should also play a part, with wolves being more docile during  a the day and actively hunt at night. As well as of course the smell factor the game currently has.

2. SPEED: Wolves should be fast when they rush you, however, once you put a bullet or arrow in them, they should slow down. A lot. To have the wolf continue running dispute bleeding and having a large hole in its body makes no sense.

3. AWARENESS: Wolves should fear you more then anything. In reality, wolves avoid people at all costs, and while I understand this is a game, there still should be a degree of realism. Fireing a rifle or flare gun should send all the wolves in the area running as far away from you as possible rather than bidding behind a hill to jump you when you pass. 

I understand that the developers want to make the game hard and punishing, however I believe that a degree of realism when it comes to animal behaviour should still play a part. Feel free to give me suggestions or reasons that this is a terrible idea. Thanks!

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I did a similar suggestion little time ago (for a more realistic behaviour of the wildlife). But in TLD, this absurd behaviour is explained by the electromagnetic storm. And as it is only a game, the aggressive wildlife must be seen as a mechanism, not a simulation of reality. Finally, I this the best idea would be custom difficulty settings, which I suggest you to support like I did, as I think it is our best chance to get what we both want : http://www.hinterlandforums.com/forums/topic/16492-custom-difficulty/

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1. No not necessarily. Wolves eating an animal will continue to eat the animal if you get away. They also will stalk you for a bit before aggroing on you. And the Aurora...

2. I agree on this one.

3. Again geomagnetic storm, and firing a gun or flare gun does scare all the wolves in the area. 

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13 hours ago, ImNew said:

TL;DR: Wolves should act more like Wolves and less like death machines from hell.

I love this game. I have stayed away from survival Games in the past due to their cheasy environments (zombies and islands with dinosaurs) however this game keeps itself grounded in what's realistic and believable and I love that. The only thing I don't love is the wolf AI. Look, don't get me wrong, I like a challenge. I'm all for week long blizzards and little to no food anywhere, however the wolves in this game are just downright crazy. I dread encounters with these things, not because they are all very lethal and can kill you with ease, but because they will spot you from 3.5 km away and hunt you down to the ends of God's green earth just because you exist. This IMO kills the immersion and overall flow of the game. In stead of sneaking past a wolf or trying to shoot and kill it, I often find myself walking around entire Montana just to avoid them. I think they should be tweaked to display a more natural behavior, some suggestions I have are:

1. FIGHT OR FLIGHT: Right now, all wolves are gonna try and kill you if you are spotted by them. I think a mechanic where some wolves attack and some don't would make for an overall more realistic experience. Some factors that could influence the fight or flight could be proximity to food (wolves being more likely to attack if you're standing next to a dead deer) nber of wolves (1-2 may run while 3-4 will attack as a pack) as well as player actions suck as killing other wolves or injuring a wolf (they should be less likely to attack if you just killed 3 of their friends). Time of day should also play a part, with wolves being more docile during  a the day and actively hunt at night. As well as of course the smell factor the game currently has.

2. SPEED: Wolves should be fast when they rush you, however, once you put a bullet or arrow in them, they should slow down. A lot. To have the wolf continue running dispute bleeding and having a large hole in its body makes no sense.

3. AWARENESS: Wolves should fear you more then anything. In reality, wolves avoid people at all costs, and while I understand this is a game, there still should be a degree of realism. Fireing a rifle or flare gun should send all the wolves in the area running as far away from you as possible rather than bidding behind a hill to jump you when you pass. 

I understand that the developers want to make the game hard and punishing, however I believe that a degree of realism when it comes to animal behaviour should still play a part. Feel free to give me suggestions or reasons that this is a terrible idea. Thanks!

While I agree with you, wolves aren't necessarily as tough as they may seem. I just ran up to 4 wolves on purpose (for food) at Coastal Highway near the deer carcass outside of the Townsite, left them all wimpering and bleeding out as I walked away with 55% condition and a sprained ankle. They're not killing machines from hell, as long as you've got a decent hunting knife on you and a speedy clicking finger. I actually play on my laptop with a wireless mouse, and during wolf struggles click the laptop mousepad and my wireless mouse to get double the clicking speed. Just a tip, if you happen to use a laptop as well.

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G'day @ImNew, and welcome to the forums! :)

 

On 8/16/2017 at 3:31 PM, ImNew said:

I dread encounters with these things, not because they are all very lethal and can kill you with ease, but because they will spot you from 3.5 km away and hunt you down to the ends of God's green earth just because you exist.

Wow.. exaggerate much?

Unless you have all three scent bars lit up, wolves are not heading towards you from kilometres away. And even then, they're actually heading for the spot they detected the scent coming from. So don't stay in that spot.. get moving in the direction of shelter.

Further to which, their visual detection range is fairly limited. If you're crouching, it's amazing how close you can sometimes get. The range at which they can hear you walking is even less.. but they can hear car doors closing from a good distance, so it pays to be careful with that.

Don't carry meat (cooked or raw), un-cured hides or guts on your person unless you have good reason. Even if no scent bars are lit up, every such item you carry increases the range at which you can be detected (six pieces of cooked meat -weight doesn't matter- are enough to light one scent bar). Be especially wary if wolves are down-wind of you. The wind carries your scent further in that direction.

Wolves can sense weakness.. if you are over-encumbered, very tired, or exhausted, or if your condition is low, they are more likely to attack. Try to avoid being outside in such a situation. If you can't help it, be extra cautious.

Wolves are not as lethal as you imagine. They can only "kill you with ease" if you don't fight back. Despite what @Stormwolf1O1 says above about a knife, extensive tests have proven that the best weapon in a wolf struggle is always a hatchet. Frantic button-mashing is often actually counter-productive in a wolf struggle.. it's not about speed, but rhythm. Most people find that a steady 2-4 clicks per second is most effective. To some extent, it also depends on your framerate, so some experimentation may be needed to determine what works best for you.

Finally, wolves are actually not that hard to avoid. Crouching to get around wolves is often effective. Use the high ground to your advantage. Not only does it make it easier to see wolves in the distance, they mostly stay in the valleys and low areas, so make use of ridges and hills to travel as much as you can. Also, please read the following two threads for some useful and enlightening discussions on the best way to avoid wolves. (click on the thread titles to open it)

 

 

On 8/16/2017 at 3:31 PM, ImNew said:

Wolves should fear you more then anything. In reality, wolves avoid people at all costs, and while I understand this is a game, there still should be a degree of realism. Fireing a rifle or flare gun should send all the wolves in the area running as far away from you as possible rather than bidding behind a hill to jump you when you pass.

Part of the game-lore of TLD is that wolves have somehow become more aggressive towards humans as a side-effect of the Geomagnetic Disaster that sets the scene for the game. If you've been paying attention, you'd know that firing the rifle (I'm not so sure about the flare gun, though) DOES scare all the wildlife in the vicinity (including wolves) into running away. But they do, naturally, get over their fright after a bit.

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5 hours ago, JAFO said:

 

Despite what @Stormwolf1O1 says above about a knife, extensive tests have proven that the best weapon in a wolf struggle is always a hatchet. Frantic button-mashing is often actually counter-productive in a wolf struggle.. it's not about speed, but rhythm. Most people find that a steady 2-4 clicks per second is most effective. To some extent, it also depends on your framerate, so some experimentation may be needed to determine what works best for you.

I had never heard of this before, thanks for correcting me! I'll try this method from now on and see how it compares.

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I think the wolves are just a bad gameplay mechanic.  They're not fun to deal with, the "electromagnetic storm" is a silly excuse for bizarre wildlife behavior, and rapid-clicking is an awful way to implement combat.  

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G'day and welcome to the forums, @Arodin.

2 hours ago, Arodin said:

rapid-clicking is an awful way to implement combat

Then you've made the same wrong assumption as most people do. It's not about rapid-clicking at all.

And while you're at it, reading this should help make dealing with those wolves a lot less of a hassle.

Edited by JAFO

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On 20.8.2017 at 6:58 AM, JAFO said:

G'day and welcome to the forums, @Arodin

Then you've made the same wrong assumption as most people do. It's not about rapid-clicking at all.

And while you're at it, reading this should help make dealing with those wolves a lot less of a hassle.

I have tried that tactic, but it always ends up getting me mauled. Rapid clicking works better for me. And the wolves aren't "stupid and over powered death machines" they are challenging, but you can dodge them easily. And wolf attacks aren't usually too lethal (unless you're playing interloper, or without any weapons)

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12 hours ago, Mixxut said:

I have tried that tactic, but it always ends up getting me mauled.

You quoted two separate tactics.. which makes it hard to know which one you're actually referring to here.. can you elaborate, please?

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2 hours ago, JAFO said:

You quoted two separate tactics.. which makes it hard to know which one you're actually referring to here.. can you elaborate, please?

 

On 20.8.2017 at 6:58 AM, JAFO said:

@Arodin

Then you've made the same wrong assumption as most people do. It's not about rapid-clicking at all.

Oh, sorry I didn't notice the other link. I talked about this one.

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5 minutes ago, Mixxut said:

 

Oh, sorry I didn't notice the other link. I talked about this one.

Ok.. let's put it this way.. unless you have a pretty low frame-rate, there will be a slower rhythm that works for you.. generally it tends to be in the 2-4 beats per second range. Your framerate is a factor, though. Rapid clicking can work, but tends to be unpredictable, I suspect because rapid-clicking is hard to keep to a steady rhythm. If all else fails, a macro-type clicker will do the job, because at least it's regular.

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24 minutes ago, JAFO said:

Ok.. let's put it this way.. unless you have a pretty low frame-rate, there will be a slower rhythm that works for you.. generally it tends to be in the 2-4 beats per second range. Your framerate is a factor, though. Rapid clicking can work, but tends to be unpredictable, I suspect because rapid-clicking is hard to keep to a steady rhythm. If all else fails, a macro-type clicker will do the job, because at least it's regular.

My game runs pretty fast. I will give this tactic surely  another go when another wolf wants to 1v1 me. (Hopefully not soon)

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3 minutes ago, Mixxut said:

I will give this tactic surely  another go when another wolf wants to 1v1 me.

If you want to experiment, back up your game-save first.. then you can make more than one test at a time, too.

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Note:  The OP isn't looking for tactics to deal with 'crazy wolves',  but saying that the game would benifit from the wolves behaving differently (at least the option, besides 100% passive)
I for one agree wholeheartedly, it's the #1 thing in terms of time/benifit they could do for the game, imo.   - specially the 'fight or flight' aspect.

Why doesn't the new 'wolf fear' custom tool do anything for this I wonder (it seems to do next to nothing actually).

Edited by stray_cur
clarification

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I sometimes use the rifle as a wolf scarer. 

Usually it's when I'm fed up of sneaking around them or spamming campfires to get past them (especially now that you can't cancel the fire one you've started). 

If you spot a group of wolves blocking the way you want to go, you can fire the gun in their general direction (you can aim to hit one of you want, but it doesn't particularly matter if you miss!) and they will scatter in fear. That gives you a short amount of time to get past them before they regain their senses.

The only problem with this (apart from using up ammo) is that if they see you first, then aiming the rifle can cause them to charge, which isn't what you want. 

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Welcome to the forums @ImNew and @Arodin ^_^

I've also wondered how a wolf can still sprint after a rifle round went through it :D 

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2 hours ago, cekivi said:

Welcome to the forums @ImNew and @Arodin ^_^

I've also wondered how a wolf can still sprint after a rifle round went through it :D 

Could be the adrenaline if the shot doesn't hit in a lethal part of the body

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