Wolf wounded, tracked, crows flying but no carcass underneath

[Zobmachine]

Hi everybody, new user and player here.

I thought I should hop in here to report what seems to be an anomaly, but before I start I have to say this game really got me hooked, I love it !

After a 30 days discovery of the sandbox in pilgrim (those wolves scared me so much), I had learned the basics, got bored and didn't want to discover much more terrain so easily so I went to voyageur. I was so scared of the wildlife I was very careful and it got me to day 18 where I am today and in good shape. Maybe I've read a bit too much about wolves in here which means my few encounters went pretty well (well I'm still in voyageur in ML so there's quite some challenge ahead). This certainly avoided me an early death.

So after about 10 days well spent at trapper's homestead I decided it was time to pack and move back to camp office from where I would try to scavenge the dam. At about a third of the voyage I got close to a wolf which I didn't see behind one of those trees. I immediately tried to walk gently back to the house as I've read it could be an effective strategy, one that I don't master yet. It makes you feel so tense ! I was walking backwards to keep it in sight but I would regularly get stuck on a tree so I had to turn back and this is when it gets scary. Just hearing it growling on your steps makes you so uncomfortable that's amazing ! Once the struggle is started the fate is sealed so I feel fine again but the uncertainty between the encounter and the struggle, that's the best part ! Anyway I went uphill, everything seemed to go as planned, then downhill I couldn't see him anymore which was nerve wracking. I could have gone for a run but I really wanted to walk all the way to see if I could make it that way. In the end he attacked me just a few steps from the door.

I punctured him with the knife, patched up immediately and wasn't in such a bad shape so I started to follow the blood trail at a walking pace to let him bleed out while not loosing the trail. The crows were there to tell me he had met his fate. He apparently died on top of a rock, the blood trail ended just where the snow texture changes between the soil and the rock, the crows would show me the exact spot but there was no carcass to be found. I've searched every accessible inch on and around that rock and couldn't find a trace of that wolf, as if it was buried inside that rock.

It was getting darker so I've decided to sleep on it and come back in the morning but the crows were still circling around nothing. I thought maybe quitting and loading the game would make that carcass pop into the right place but after doing so, the crows had flown away ending all hopes of getting my trophy.

So there it is, I wonder if some of you have had similar experiences and if so I'd like to hear from you. If this is not to be expected, I'd like to know how to get precise feedback to hinterland (logs, savefiles...) to help them pinpoint the issue. Our feedback is part of what makes this game great so if I can help I'd be glad.

Thanks for reading.

[JAFO]

G'day @Zobmachine, and welcome to the forums!

Terrain glitches like this seems to be do sometimes happen.. odds are the wolf carcass was below the surface of the ground just there.  I'd suggest taking a screenshot of the spot with F8, which will put the exact coordinates into the pic, and submitting a detailed bug report.

 

14 hours ago, Zobmachine said:

At about a third of the voyage I got close to a wolf which I didn't see behind one of those trees. I immediately tried to walk gently back to the house as I've read it could be an effective strategy, one that I don't master yet. It makes you feel so tense !

Yeah, it really IS tense.. you can feel the sweat trickling down your back, and the back of your neck and shoulder muscles twitching.. seriously nerve-wracking stuff!

 

14 hours ago, Zobmachine said:

I was walking backwards to keep it in sight but I would regularly get stuck on a tree so I had to turn back and this is when it gets scary. Just hearing it growling on your steps makes you so uncomfortable that's amazing !

That was probably your first mistake.. walking backwards. Number 1 rule of the walk-away tactic: NEVER look back! Odds are good the wolf would have given up the pursuit when it was far enough beyond its' usual turf, but when you keep making eye-contact, it encourages them to keep going. And, as you've learned, you can't see where you're going and bump into things. Yes, I know it's terrifying, hearing them behind you and fighting against the urge to look back, but it really does help to not turn around.

 

14 hours ago, Zobmachine said:

Once the struggle is started the fate is sealed so I feel fine again but the uncertainty between the encounter and the struggle, that's the best part ! Anyway I went uphill, everything seemed to go as planned, then downhill I couldn't see him anymore which was nerve wracking. I could have gone for a run but I really wanted to walk all the way to see if I could make it that way. In the end he attacked me just a few steps from the door.

Running is a valid part of the walking-away tactic, but it needs to be used when it can help you break line-of-sight to the wolf. Yes, I know that's not easy to judge when you're not looking at the wolf anyway! The idea is that you make use of the terrain, approaching rock outcrops, bends in the trail, things like that, to sprint ahead around the corner and break line-of-sight. It may take a few sprints and bends to get enough distance to work*. Once the wolf can no longer see you, it soon loses interest.

* And if you're carrying any meat (even cooked), guts or hide, even if you don't have any scent bars showing, you'll need to be beyond scent detection range as well, which makes it even harder to pull off.

On a number of occasions now, (not looking back even once) I've led wolves over several hundred metres of rough terrain, around twists and turns, halfway around a house to the door, wolf just behind me every step of the way, and not gotten jumped at the doorway. Why did you get attacked "a few steps from the door"? Were you walking backwards facing the wolf? Did you get tangled up in the steps to the Cabin? Did you turn back to look at the last minute? Did you stop moving or hesitate for a moment?

I'd like to know, so as to help further refine the walk-away tactic, if possible.

[JAFO]

14 hours ago, Zobmachine said:

I'd like to know how to get precise feedback to hinterland (logs, savefiles...) to help them pinpoint the issue.

Use this link:
http://www.hinterlandforums.com/forums/forum/93-report-a-bug/

(You don't need to log in or create an account to report a bug)

[Thrasador]

I read all this. Man, that blows! Not being able to at least eat the bastard after he jumps you just adds insult to injury....literally, lol. Stupid rock. Be careful on higher difficulties, wolf and bear meat has a chance to give you the longest affliction in the game....parasites....you don't want that crap. There is no chance to get it on Voyager and Pilgrim, so you are fine eating the meat of any animal....

Listen to @JAFO, he is a game veteran so he knows all the little tips and tricks to the game....well at least the vast majority. They like to switch stuff up a lot, and then occasionally not tell anyone....so sometimes anyone may have noticed something someone else didn't know....or at least they thought they knew...but they changed it a patch ago and forgot to list the change anywhere....

Basically yeah....hear a bark, back up and turn around and walk away. If you get behind a rock, or some trees, or over a hill give it a little sprint. Then maybe crouch behind the next rock, and go up a cliff while he can't see you....then walk off in a new direction away from where he was last known to be.....and give em a little rope a dope. I've watched game veterans ditch a wolf by doing this pretty quick. Once they can't see you, you can trick them and lose them....especially if you don't reek of blood, and guts, and meat...

[JAFO]

6 minutes ago, Thrasador said:

Listen to @JAFO, he is a game veteran so he knows all the little tips and tricks to the game....well at least the vast majority.

<chuckles> Don't know if I count as veteran yet..  I have a long list of players I'm in awe of.. and wolves still scare the crap out of me, even if I am beginning to get better at dealing with them! My next task is to work on the "bait and shoot" technique. Not that that is of much help with Ep1 of Wintermute.. I don't like not having a decent weapon to hand, even though that's mostly what is helping me refine my "walk-away" skills.

[Thrasador]

I got over my wolf fear WITH bait and shoot....Yes, it doesn't help much in episode 1 with no rifle....but you can bait and run....

I have never done bait and flare gun yet....that might work too....the flares miss a lot though. I need to save my game and waste all my flares on some target practice....then reload to get all my flares back....

[JAFO]

2 minutes ago, Thrasador said:

I have never done bait and flare gun yet....that might work too....the flares miss a lot though. I need to save my game and waste all my flares on some target practice....then reload to get all my flares back....

Recent tip I learned for target practice.. drop/place a water bottle, back off, and take pot-shots at it.

[Thrasador]

Okies....

[Zobmachine]

Thanks to both for your answers and for the bug report link.

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Why did you get attacked "a few steps from the door"? Were you walking backwards facing the wolf? Did you get tangled up in the steps to the Cabin? Did you turn back to look at the last minute? Did you stop moving or hesitate for a moment?

I was indeed walking backwards, as the wolf had passed the hill I had eye contact again, and seeing where the wolf is drops my blood pressure a bit. That surely was my mistake here. I just knew I had read something about facing the wolf having an effect, I just thought it was the other way around. I was also trying to figure out if facing it or not would make any difference on its behaviour but that's difficult to notice while you're turning your back away.

I also had a bit of cooked meat and cured guts because I was moving all my stuff. I had taken as much as I could without lighting the reek-o-meter.

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Running is a valid part of the walking-away tactic, but it needs to be used when it can help you break line-of-sight to the wolf.

Well at the moment the only wolves I managed to lose were by running all the way to a shelter, but just because I knew I was close enough to make it in one go. I thought running while in sight of a wolf would make it go directly to attack mode so I try to avoid it, but from what you say it seems you can make it relax a bit by breaking line of sight anyway.

I could have run all the way after the hill and I would have made it for sure but I really wanted to prove to myself that the walking away technique was indeed a valid one, at least to go back home, not necessarily to lose it.

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I got over my wolf fear WITH bait and shoot....Yes, it doesn't help much in episode 1 with no rifle....but you can bait and run....

I'll surely try the bait when I get my hands on a rifle or a bow (well I do have a bow and a single arrow, it might be a good idea to practice on deers first). Until then, having a bait implies carrying smelly stuff so I don't feel like it will help me at the moment.

[JAFO]

2 hours ago, Zobmachine said:

I was indeed walking backwards, as the wolf had passed the hill I had eye contact again, and seeing where the wolf is drops my blood pressure a bit. That surely was my mistake here. I just knew I had read something about facing the wolf having an effect, I just thought it was the other way around. I was also trying to figure out if facing it or not would make any difference on its behaviour but that's difficult to notice while you're turning your back away.

You've probably already seen it, but in case you haven't, see this thread.. (click on the title to open it)

 

[Thrasador]

@Zobmachine if you have never used bait before it's quite simple. If you hear a wolf bark, and it starts walking towards you, press the bait button and you will automatically drop the stinkiest thing you are carrying. If you have uncured gut on you, it is often that. If not, next wold be uncooked meat, usually the stinkiest lowest condition piece, and if none of that then cooked meat....the smallest lowest condition piece.

I do my best to avoid carrying uncured guts and uncooked meat on me whenever possible BECAUSE they give off so much smell and can attract wolves from so far away. So if anything I typically have a little cooked meat on me. When eating a piece of cooked meat you can hit escape or the cancel button in the middle of eating to stop eating. I usually do this to keep a couple pieces of cooked meat under 0.20 kilos to drop for wolves.

So you drop the bait and back up a bit keeping the bait between you and the wolf like you would do with a torch, to get the wolf to intercept it. If it is working the wolf will often change posturing. He will stop snarling and growling and start trotting twords the bait, happy he is getting a free meal.

If you had a weapon, this would be when you can take aim safely and not get attacked. Normally when you attempt to aim at a wolf with any weapon, including a rock it will immediately go into attack mode and charge you ending in a wolf struggle. If it is distracted by the bait, you can now safely shoot it in the face....if you succeed it often one-shotts the wolf.

If you don't have a weapon though and the wolf takes the bait, it usually trotts off while eating the bait giving you a chance to walk away in the opposite direction. They say the amount of time you have is proportional to the size of the bait, but obviously any amout of time plus the wolf walking away is very useful for getting out of range and getting away.

I HAVE had bait totally not work before. I'm not sure why, maybe I was injured and the wolf figured he could take me. Or maybe I stepped on a safe spot like a porch and doing that deactivated the bait. There are weird mechanics involved with meat. Animals are only attracted to it when it is associated with you. That's why it is safe to just leave meat outside on the ground if you are not being actively stakked by a wolf or bear. They can only smell meat when it is attached to your person...

All in all bait is very useful and typically works well....

[JAFO]

5 hours ago, Thrasador said:

I typically have a little cooked meat on me. When eating a piece of cooked meat you can hit escape or the cancel button in the middle of eating to stop eating. I usually do this to keep a couple pieces of cooked meat under 0.20 kilos to drop for wolves.

Even easier is when you are harvesting the carcass.. set the dial to only take 0.5kg, then, when the harvesting spinner reaches the 1/4 mark or so, hit the escape key. You'll get a piece weighing 100-150gms or so.. do that a couple more times, and then harvest the rest normally.

[Thrasador]

Just now, JAFO said:

Even easier is when you are harvesting the carcass.. set the dial to only take 0.5kg, then, when the harvesting spinner reaches the 1/4 mark or so, hit the escape key. You'll get a piece weighing 10-15gms or so.. do that a couple more times, and then harvest the rest normally.

I would do that if they altered the cook mechanics. It seems to me like (haven't timed it or anything) cooked little pieces of meat take just as long as cooking a whole kilo piece, or a several kilo fish.  Which is fine if you are trying to level your cooking skill.....but with no skill levels in the story, I'm not cooking little pieces unless I'm forced to. I suppose you could keep the bait raw, but like I said I'm not a fan of raw meat stink levels....

I like to be able to carry two small cooked baits, and maybe two pieces of kilo steaks, and still stay under one official stink bar. I know I'm still giving off smell...but I like to keep a relatively low stink level whenever possible....

[JAFO]

23 minutes ago, Thrasador said:

It seems to me like (haven't timed it or anything) cooked little pieces of meat take just as long as cooking a whole kilo piece, or a several kilo fish.

You're correct.. both take the same amount of time.. it's been complained about many times in the past.

 

19 minutes ago, Thrasador said:

with no skill levels in the story, I'm not cooking little pieces unless I'm forced to.I like to be able to carry two small cooked baits, and maybe two pieces of kilo steaks, and still stay under one official stink bar. I know I'm still giving off smell...but I like to keep a relatively low stink level whenever possible....

I hear you.. and for those players not yet aware; the amount of stink you give off does not depend on weight.. just the number of pieces of meat you're carrying.. 6x100gm cooked steaks, or 6x1kg cooked steaks, either will light up one stink bar.

 

[Thrasador]

19 minutes ago, JAFO said:

I hear you.. and for those players not yet aware; the amount of stink you give off does not depend on weight.. just the number of pieces of meat you're carrying.. 6x100gm cooked steaks, or 6x1kg cooked steaks, either will light up one stink bar.

 

One "official" stink bar. You still stink more the more stinky items you carry even with no bars...it's been tested. I know you knew that already though @JAFO....as you knew I know about the pieces regardless of weight as you responded to me complaining about it like a month ago...

[JAFO]

Just now, Thrasador said:

I know you knew that already though

Like I've said.. it's all about educating the newcomers who might read this.. (but you knew that, too!) 

[Zobmachine]

Thanks guys, this thread goes on with much more useful information than I had asked for.

I've found from where I was incited to walk backwards and never run. It comes from that guide :

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Walk slowly away from the wolf. Make sure to look back now and then to keep track of what it is doing.

I may have read that sentence too quickly (and now it feels wrong anyway), like : "Make sure to look back now , and then ... keep track of what it is doing" (for those who are reading this thread too quickly, DON'T DO THAT).

Anyway, in the meantime I've been surprised at how fast the wolves do respawn (at least in voyageur), they were back the next time I took the same path. My main reason for not trying too hard to avoid them is that after fighting them I thought I could wander freely and much more relaxed along those paths for a decent period, allowing me to easily move my meat stash from one camp to the other. Now I realise there's not much advantage to do it my way. If you take the time to recover from your wounds, track the carcass, harvest and cook it, sleep and leave the next day (or maybe the day after), then you'll be facing another one in the same spot. Does leaving the carcass unharvested or partially harvested delay the respawn ?

I'm also starting to understand that in my current place / difficulty / playstyle, wolves are not a death threat. They're just a waste of time, effort and cloth. They do however make you think twice about wandering too far away from a known resting spot.

PS : "Snowballs in hell" is a great read, thanks for mentioning it somewhere in another thread (not that it is related to the current discussion in any way, it's still a great read).

[JAFO]

18 minutes ago, Zobmachine said:

I've found from where I was incited to walk backwards and never run. It comes from that guide :

Wow.. there's a lot in there that is either out of date, inadequate, insufficiently explained, or just plain incorrect. It will take a while to go through it all and cover all the points I think need addressing. BRB.

[Zobmachine]

You can find the same misleading guide on steam (where I've found it originally).

[JAFO]

36 minutes ago, Zobmachine said:

Anyway, in the meantime I've been surprised at how fast the wolves do respawn (at least in voyageur), they were back the next time I took the same path. My main reason for not trying too hard to avoid them is that after fighting them I thought I could wander freely and much more relaxed along those paths for a decent period, allowing me to easily move my meat stash from one camp to the other. Now I realise there's not much advantage to do it my way. If you take the time to recover from your wounds, track the carcass, harvest and cook it, sleep and leave the next day (or maybe the day after), then you'll be facing another one in the same spot. Does leaving the carcass unharvested or partially harvested delay the respawn ?

Yes, it does.. leave a hide, gut or sliver of meat on the carcass, and it will be there several days before it disappears. The respawn countdown clock doesn't kick in until that happens.

[JAFO]

40 minutes ago, Zobmachine said:

I'm also starting to understand that in my current place / difficulty / playstyle, wolves are not a death threat. They're just a waste of time, effort and cloth. They do however make you think twice about wandering too far away from a known resting spot.

No.. they stop you getting complacent.. and the two biggest killers in this game are overconfidence and complacency.

And they're an obstacle to you doing what you want to do. One you will learn to outwit, given time. Once you get the hang of it, they aren't that hard to handle, most of the time. The occasional "oops.. that didn't go well" moment can be afforded then, when 90% or more of the time you can give 'em the slip.

 

40 minutes ago, Zobmachine said:

PS : "Snowballs in hell" is a great read, thanks for mentioning it somewhere in another thread (not that it is related to the current discussion in any way, it's still a great read).

You're very welcome.. why not pop back there and tell Drifter Man how you liked it.. he'd get a kick out of that, I'm sure.

[Thrasador]

47 minutes ago, JAFO said:

Wow.. there's a lot in there that is either out of date, inadequate, insufficiently explained, or just plain incorrect. It will take a while to go through it all and cover all the points I think need addressing. BRB.

It wasn't that bad....yeah some of it was wrong, but as far as "guides" go I have read worse...

The Steam version has some corrections that are not present in the published website version. People are trying to correct some of the incorrect statements via steam comments. Like drawing a weapon on a wolf and aiming makes it charge you instantly.....he neglected to mention that initially....which is odd...

[Zobmachine]

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It wasn't that bad....yeah some of it was wrong, but as far as "guides" go I have read worse...

Yeah I've still found lots of useful information in there. It does a good job of highlighting the different phases of wolf behaviour. However I've run into two quirks on my first try applying it. It restrains you from running until you can make it to a shelter in a single run. It seems much more useful to use running to lose the wolf as you've explained me. If you can make it in a single run you may as well walk, as long as you don't look back as advised.

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You're very welcome.. why not pop back there and tell Drifter Man how you liked it.. he'd get a kick out of that, I'm sure.

I certainly will once I get to the last word of it.

[JAFO]

9 minutes ago, Thrasador said:

It wasn't that bad....yeah some of it was wrong, but as far as "guides" go I have read worse...

Agreed.. I've seen worse.. but in so many little things it needs work.

10 minutes ago, Thrasador said:

Like drawing a weapon on a wolf and aiming makes it charge you instantly.....he neglected to mention that initially....which is odd...

Yes.. one of those crucial little things that can get you killed.. and should be in there, but isn't.

[JAFO]

10 minutes ago, Zobmachine said:

It restrains you from running until you can make it to a shelter in a single run. It seems much more useful to use running to lose the wolf as you've explained me.

That's another of the things I take issue with.

When I said "lots" of things, I wasn't intending to suggest it was bad.. just that it missed so much out, got the wrong slant on a couple of things, and was once or twice just misinformed or incorrect. There's also a personal assumption stated as fact. Things like that.

It's a very useful guide.. but needs some editing.