LIBARYKEEPER483

The long dark kind of feels like a Fallout game

Recommended Posts

As I was walking through Coastal Highway I went to Pandora to play some music I had Shuffle on and it began playing my 50s rock station, I had the rifle equipped and I felt like I was playing a Fallout game.

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, LIBARYKEEPER483 said:

felt like I was playing a Fallout game.

Don't recall much snow in Fallout... but sepia colored glasses would probably add to the similarities.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, LIBARYKEEPER483 said:

As I was walking through Coastal Highway I went to Pandora to play some music I had Shuffle on and it began playing my 50s rock station, I had the rifle equipped and I felt like I was playing a Fallout game.

Welcome @LIBARYKEEPER483:)

Interesting of you to invoke the game that summons me :P
I agree with you... The Long Dark can at times feel a bit similar to highly modded Fallout 3.  With that said I have to say I am so very glad  that The Long Dark feels nothing like Falldown 4.

10 hours ago, Dirmagnos said:

Went to Pandora ? Wait, you mean Fallout or Borderlands ?:D

Good one, Dirmagnos! It took me a sec to 'get it' :P  Borderlands was a cool game in its own right -- well, the 1st one anyhow. But I really, REALLY hated how Bethesda tried to copy the Borderlands gamestyle and then shoehorned it into Fallout 4...turning it into the most disappointing game I played in 2015, 16, and 17.  Even mods don't help it. So sad. 

2 hours ago, happybjorn said:

Don't recall much snow in Fallout... but sepia colored glasses would probably add to the similarities.

Heh...pretty funny!  The only way to see snow in 'vanilla' Fallout (3) is the Operation Anchorage simulation pod at Bailey's Crossroads ;)

I've also heard of a total conversion mod for Falldown 4 called FROST survival simulator (haven't tried it) that occurs during the nuclear winter right after the Great War of '77.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I definitely see the symmetry between TLD and Fallout, having played a fair bit of Fallout 3 (when it didn't crash on me every ten seconds).

But the game I find myself comparing it more to, oddly enough to be sure, is Skyrim.  I've actually played more the wasteland wanderer type in Skyrim than the adventurer always going to town to sell of their loot.  One thing that's been on my mind has been wondering how well I would do in Skyrim with the same environmental difficulties as The Long Dark has.  The answer is pretty much always, I'd lose.  But thinking about it definitely impresses me with how difficult the 7000 steps would really be.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Samsonguy920 said:

having played a fair bit of Fallout 3 (when it didn't crash on me every ten seconds).

But I thought that was considered a 'feature' of all Bethesda games, or as Todd Howard put it, "it just works!" :P

1 hour ago, Samsonguy920 said:

I definitely see the symmetry between TLD and Fallout

I see that symetry most in the long lonely walks, beautiful vistas, and that hunting rifle :x 

1 hour ago, Samsonguy920 said:

I've actually played more the wasteland wanderer type in Skyrim than the adventurer always going to town to sell of their loot.  One thing that's been on my mind has been wondering how well I would do in Skyrim with the same environmental difficulties as The Long Dark has.  

You know there's a mod for Fallout 3 called Ambient Temperature that adds ambient air temperature based on month, time of day, & location, 
That adds at least a tiny bit of the difficulty that The Long Dark has. But in that environment people are more concerned of dying from dehydration than from hypothermia ;) 

Yea I agree with you on that "always end up going from town to town to sell loot." I kind of wonder what Fallout 3 would be like if there were no "caps" as currency at all, and it was strictly a bartering system? That probably would change the way the whole game felt. It might have been a good thing...

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, Wasteland Watcher said:

But I really, REALLY hated how Bethesda tried to copy the Borderlands gamestyle and then shoehorned it into Fallout 4...turning it into the most disappointing game I played in 2015, 16, and 17.  Even mods don't help it. So sad. 

Fallout 4 is garbage. Its a Fallout-ish shooter "with elements". Basically its just money-milking off well established title, with minimal effort involved in development.

Fallout was great, Fallout 2 was even better. Tactics was a step sideways - it was ok, at least they had decency to name it differently. Fallout 3 was a small step back and huge step sideways, going in new direction, with some good stuff and bad stuff(like being lazy and forcing TES skill system on top of SPECIAL, horrible idea). New Vegas was a significant improvement over Fallout 3, with a lot of issues fixed, a lot of polishing, expansion of SPECIAL system, deep and interesting world filled with interesting ppl and important choices.

And then Fallout 4 happened. Only thing that was better in Fallout 4, compared to previous 2 titles, was slightly better combat system for run'n'gun players. For sneaky snipers nothing really changed on that part. And at the same time every other aspect of the game took a huge hit. SPECIAL was essentially destroyed. Quests were mostly boring and predictable, not to mention absurd. Universe lore consistency was flushed down the drain, with dev team simply rewriting huge chunks of it for no good reason and game being filled with contradicting pieces of information. Companions became shallow(they are ok-ish, but compared to ones from NV liek Book or Cass, they feel like placeholders; hell, many NPCs from NV were more interesting that pretty much every potential companion in F4). Instead we got voiced protagonist, completely pointless feature - if only they would put all that work into something actually important, like same companions. Story was completely liner and predictable, almost all sidequests were just "go there, kill that". Part with karma, choices and consequences was completely axed out. All that build on ancient game engine, with many game aspects castrated to fit into it limitations or development shortcomings. Etc etc etc

In general, F4 devs didnt really try much, filling holes with cheap drama, instead of making deep and interesting game. Game is playable if enough mods are installed, but even then its just fairly mediocre shooter.

Fallout 4 was crap, id give it 4 out of 10 and in terms of GOTY candidates in last few years, after Witcher 3 it jumps straight to Prey, there is hardly anything worth mentioning in between. Some decent games, but nothing particularly spectacular.

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@Dirmagnos my friend, believe me when I say, "I feel your pain and disappointment."  I actually played two "full" playthroughs (from Out of Time through The Nuclear Option) -- one when the game was released, and the second after they actually fixed "survival mode." With that 2nd playthrough I also installed mods in an attempt to fix the game that did the following:
-Delete all "legendary enemies" from the game,
-Make VATS like Fallout 3's,
-Full dialogue text for conversation choices,
-No Character Voice,
-Realistically dark nights,
-Remove "magic" from all clothes and food, and finally
-The "Fallout 4 RPG" mod...which despite trying, could not fix Bethesda's "Shoot Everything In The Face To Solve All Quests" core game-play system.

I played for 769 hours (according to Steam) and it was and is a disappointing game, despite wanting to like it and using as many user created resources as possible to fix Bethesda's broken, disappointing creation.
The only thing I think BethSoft got right in FO4 was the Power Armor System that was a direct copy of the "Powered Power Armor Mod" by modder Imp of the Perverse (who also happens to be the one behind New Vegas's "Hardcore Mode" needs, with his mod called "More Complex Needs").
Anyhow... one good thing came out of my severe disappointment in Falldown 4: I started Google searching for "PC first-person survival games with NO zombies" and that led me straight into The Long Dark ^_^

So in a way I have them to actually thank for me finding this outstanding game!:o

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On ‎2017‎-‎06‎-‎21 at 8:26 PM, Wasteland Watcher said:

-The "Fallout 4 RPG" mod...which despite trying, could not fix Bethesda's "Shoot Everything In The Face To Solve All Quests" core game-play system.

Sad but so very, very true. I miss the nuance of the earlier titles. Heck, at least tactics was open that it was a "go places and shoot things" game! 

On ‎2017‎-‎06‎-‎21 at 8:26 PM, Wasteland Watcher said:

Anyhow... one good thing came out of my severe disappointment in Falldown 4: I started Google searching for "PC first-person survival games with NO zombies" and that led me straight into The Long Dark ^_^

Neat! :D

I got here when I saw a lets play video from Loading Ready Run's  "Lets Nope" series :) 

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 6/22/2017 at 3:26 AM, Wasteland Watcher said:

The only thing I think BethSoft got right in FO4 was the Power Armor System

I hate F4 PA system. Its clunky, poorly thought thru, unrealistic(out of what they should be making those joints in armor, that are paper thin, yet manage to sustain tremendous amount of pressure and where they got sufficient supply of this wonder-metal during war, because its neither steel not ceramic, as per description of primary materials used in PAs) and, yet again, goes against the lore(not that it matters anyway). According to Fallout bible, military tried walking tank version of PA, but it failed as troops suffered unacceptable casualties due to various reasons, so they moved to a bit lighter version. But then again, Bethesda invented new T-60 completely out of the blue, so, again, whatever.

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, Dirmagnos said:

I hate F4 PA system. Its clunky, poorly thought thru, unrealistic(out of what they should be making those joints in armor, that are paper thin, yet manage to sustain tremendous amount of pressure and where they got sufficient supply of this wonder-metal during war, because its neither steel not ceramic, as per description of primary materials used in PAs) and, yet again, goes against the lore(not that it matters anyway). According to Fallout bible, military tried walking tank version of PA, but it failed as troops suffered unacceptable casualties due to various reasons, so they moved to a bit lighter version. But then again, Bethesda invented new T-60 completely out of the blue, so, again, whatever.

 I love your comment and reasoning @Dirmagnos and where I agree about FO4 screwing up with power armor is that they make it an item as common as a sniper rifle...and that's just wrong¬¬

In the original FO remember outside Lost Hills? It's basically stated that (like in FO wiki) those in PA are like walking tanks that can raze a whole town single handedly and that small arms fire doesn't even affect the wearer. FO3's vanilla PA did not get that right but in that regard I think FO4 did a good job of making PA *feel* like powered infantry combat armor :) 

IMG_1113.JPG

IMG_1114.JPG

IMG_1115.JPG

Edited by Wasteland Watcher
Continuing the conversation :)
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Fallout wiki is crap, when it comes to lore. Looking up specs of items, or details of quests - its good. But when it comes to lore, it gets rewritten every time something new comes out, regardless if it follows universe lore.

And was especially bad after F4 came out, that shat on everything, making up and changing stuff as they continued. Devs didnt even try to follow lore. And there are examples from wall to wall. Like same T-60, that appeared out of nowhere and was forcefully inserted into lore, as there was literally no space in that timeframe. Or this moronic quest with kid ghoul in a fridge, who supposedly was there for 200 years(probably made by some guy who had 0 knowledge of lore and presumed that Fallout "ghoul" is same as one from all those zombie games/movies). Only way to come up with so blatantly lazy if you dont give a flying frak. And considering that game is littered with such gross mistakes, id say that nobody in control of the game development knew nothing above bare basic of Fallout lore(if that), nor did they care to learn more.

And those screenshots actually prove that Bethesda went completely wrong on PA. I view PA more like a variation of medieval knight armor(as it was made in F3 and NV, with separate pieces that need to be fitted and then connected, amplifying human strength as while separate pieces are just armor, combined they create balanced system), rather than exoskeletal monstrosity that it was in F4. That is also made in ways that are both lazy and purely idiotic(from armor design perspective). What moron designs armor that can be opened with simple tap on the back, in place where wearer cant see - allowing some random chinese soldier simply sneak behind, pop the hood and then stab operator. This design feature makes exiting armor also extremely problematic, and impossible, if internal mechanism fails, becoming essentially walking coffin, similar to Y-17. I already talked about joints. On top of that plating on F4 PA is also completely crazy - considering materials used to upgrade it it would weight a ton and it was 3-4 cm of pure plating. Something that was completely unnecessary. Plus, F4 design on PA also makes it extremely rigid, completely tanking player agility. So on and so forth...

Then there is logical holes. Like simple fact that there is no point in making walking tank. Because if armor is extremely overplated and rigid, it cant operate solo and needs infantry support. To prevent flanking, for example. But at the same time, since its a single-soldier unit, infantry cant hide behind it, when under severe fire, as it frame size do not provide sufficient protection, as it is done with many modern armored vehicles(just dont go behind Abrams tank, it exhaust will literally cook you). Then there is issue of weight, as overly heavy armor, in case of it falling(something that would happen a lot, due to limited visibility and high center of mass), wont be able to get back up - and there is no angles where servos could be implemented to help with that in effective manner. There are multiple other factors, like ability to use jetpacks, maintenance difficulty, ventilation, power management(another thing that Bethesda nitwits completely screwed up - PA running on batteries, ffs), etc. that simply make F4 walking tank version extremely stupid idea. And lore kinda hints at all that, as if people behind original concept actually thought about those things and transcribed it into lore, as history or armor development, abandoning whole idea of walking tank in the end.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@Dirmagnos I feel the Fallout wiki is a dual-edged sword (like all wikis) because though it does contain lots of good info, not all is 100% accurate. Also, as you state, shams such as FO4 that become canon get added, which feels to me similar to pouring salt on a wound.


I agree completely with your 2nd paragraph on Bethesda not giving a damn about lore on their way to push their hype train/cash cow as fast as it would go prior release. The damage done is irreversible. I know for a fact I will not buy Fallout 5. After it releases and after reading at least 10 reviews, if it seems that it has returned to it's role-playing roots -- but in first-person -- then there's a good chance I would make a purchase. No DLCs though. I don't believe in them. I've observed that 90% of DLCs are not worth the money.

Power Armor is where we deviate a bit in opinion, and that's ok. In the original Fallout: a post nuclear role-playing game, power armor is referred to as "the ultimate armor," and indeed, in the original it is. You are not indestructible but nearly so. It is definitely over-powered, as it should be. Especially after having Miles harden it.
We get to FO3 and see it in first person for the first time and it is awesome looking. I remember the first time I found a downed Outcast in the wastes and ran to him to take the armor and got the message "You need Power Armor Training to use this" and I was like "Nooooo!!! :/"  It was actually one of the best experiences, because it seemed realistic -- how would someone who's never seen or used it before even know how to get it on? They probably wouldn't. 
Anyhow, when I finally can wear it it just seemed like Metal Armor...not very impressive, at least not until mods like "impervious power armor" were released to give it extra durability and an actual damage threshold. Fallout 4 got the durability down well. Most low level weapons don't seem to do much damage.
I have very mixed feelings about the 'vehicle style' of the fo4 PA. It's large but not overly so, and you can get to most places a person can. It was also maneuverable enough to not feel rigid. I'm entirely against the modular mix and match thing though...makes it seem like power armor isn't so special after all and the different looks are just that -- just for looks.
I didn't like the "PA needs a daily battery change thing" because in FO it's explained that the suit has a self-contained microfusion power source that 'lasts about 100 years.' That's with 12+ hours per day use, everyday. We see the BoS in all the Fallouts and they are in their suits all the time. Then we get to FO4 and get PA suits that seemingly use the 'first version'  that "ran on small energy cells and would burn through them at an alarming rate." Just seems like a gimmick bethesda wanted to pull just because they could. That and Bethesda making PA suits an item that even INT 1 raiders could use. Bethesda really blew it.
The quick entry/exit design makes sense on one hand, but on the other hand it doesn't 'feel' very Fallout-like (Operation Anchorage seems to imply that it seems you needed help from a technician to get it on or off).  And the 'tap a button to get the wearer to exit' thing seems like lazy game design. They could have at least added some lore such as, "needs the registered user's fingerprint to unlock" to make it more believable ...but they didn't.
Regarding mechanics such as build materials and power supplies, we have to keep in mind that it is not our era Fallout exists as it deviates from the 50s onwards. This implies there are technologies and processes used that we don't have available (fusion batteries and plasma weapons for example). I can willingly allow myself to suspend my disbelief for certain things in the FO universe such as laser weaponry, power armor, and FEV because though it is in the realm of sci-fi, it is not so over-the-top. The sci-fi in at least FO through FO3 is on the fringe of being believable (excepting crap DLC Mothership Zeta). Anyhow, my point is that even FO4 PA is close to believable. More believable than Iron Man's power suit anyhow ;) Though cool that thing is waaaaaaay over the top :P


 

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 hours ago, Wasteland Watcher said:

No DLCs though. I don't believe in them. I've observed that 90% of DLCs are not worth the money.

As with games, it depends hugely on developer/publisher. Most so-called AAA publishers are junk-peddlers. Selling flashy hyped shallow pebbles of glass.

Making games used to be about artistic expression, making fantasies come true. But nowadays big titles are comparable to McDonalds burgers - they are primitive and completely forgettable after 20-30 hours. Not exactly surprising, considering that leadership knowledge of gaming industry do not extent past Candy Crush. So they play safe, releasing yet another clone, with no innovations to avoid risks, for n-th time. Mmo and shooters are especially bad on that part. This part of gaming had not seen any development in over 10 years - bits here and there, like same Prey, but nothing actually good or original. Most successful games in those genres are just professionally put together. like same Doom, that is as basic as it gets, but is made by people who did it a hundred times before and therefore while extremely primitive, it is also extremely well polished. Something that most AAA severely lack. Well, they generally lack in pretty much every aspect aside of visuals.

And lazy/incompetent gamemaking also extends into DLC making, just worse, which is a challenge on its own. To make even worse addon to already rather bad game.

Luckely there are some professional and passionate devs there, like same CDProjectRed, who managed to make a top notch game, well written, optimized, balanced and interesting. With DLCs of same quality. Even tho there was only 2 major ones, both of them added literally a ton of content for extremely low price by modern standards. Dozens of hours of gameplay with new features for just 10 bucks. And what we got from Bethesda ? Shit like Automaton, that can be completed in an hour, including smoke breaks. Boring as crap and are mostly on the level, in terms of quality and interactivity, as rather mediocre mod. With many mods, of far superior quality, being available on Nexus for free.

Ohh, and yes, Bethesda can stick their shitty attempt to control modding community via their bethesda.net, where sun dont shine. A few years back i considered them to be one of the last ones, those few devs/publishers who made/published good games. But at this point, they are in same shithole as other cheap hos, like EA or Ubisoft. Ironic statement, considering that they are the ones to publish Prey, but i consider it a fluke. Maybe lack of oversight from corporate overlords, allowing Arcane to actually make good game.

20 hours ago, Wasteland Watcher said:

We get to FO3 and see it in first person for the first time and it is awesome looking.

No, it looked awesome in first 2 games as well. Not by modern standards maybe, but in those days, after running around in leather jacket for a long time, to see and then put it on...it was better than sex.9_9 It was the ultimate experience. And while it was good vs small arms, then advanced weaponry would still pack a punch. Something that took hit alredy in F3/NV, but was made into a complete joke in F4. Luckily i use 2 mods for that, that seeing missile launcher already makes you sweat, and seeing Fat Man in hostile hands turns it into race against time - either he launches it and you die or you take him out first, as even near hit deals over 3k damage.

20 hours ago, Wasteland Watcher said:

Then we get to FO4 and get PA suits that seemingly use the 'first version'  that "ran on small energy cells and would burn through them at an alarming rate."

Except that its another excuse of incompetent design of F4, as original lore has nothing on it. As far as i gather, power plant was part of original design from a getgo.

20 hours ago, Wasteland Watcher said:

Regarding mechanics such as build materials and power supplies, we have to keep in mind that it is not our era Fallout exists as it deviates from the 50s onwards.

True, but there are a lot of concepts that Bethesda seem to came up with "what if we do it this way", completely disregarding any lore of the universe or simple common sense. There is no mentioning of materials that could be used in such manner anywhere, even tho one might presume that something as peculiar would be used widely, or at the very least, would be mentioned.

20 hours ago, Wasteland Watcher said:

can willingly allow myself to suspend my disbelief for certain things in the FO universe such as laser weaponry, power armor, and FEV because though it is in the realm of sci-fi, it is not so over-the-top.

Thing about good story is that it consist of 2 equal parts, realism(when it touches on things that are close to our reality, as for example, laser weaponry concept do exist in modern world and in Fallout universe every aspect of this concept is used, with scifi part building on top of it, extending it, not just randomly piling up completely absurd concepts) and internal consistence(so that things would make sense, by either following conventional logic or being explained why they do not). Otherwise we get something along the lines of uncanny valley, that technically look like real thing, but simply do not feel right.

And dont you dare touching zethans.:ph34r: This is one goof in Fallout universe that i love unconditionally. All this crap, like talking head is so ridiculous, that it kinda makes whole circle and somehow fit. Besides, who to say that aliens do not exist. Or going into metaphysical concepts like Cafe of Broken Dreams. They are so far outside of base game concept that they actually stand on their own... but fit.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@Dirmagnos I agree with about 90% (95%? ;)) of your reply. We don't agree on having Aliens in a post-apocalyptic game...but that's okay. We can just agree to disagree on that :P

Overall though I feel exactly the same as you :)
I don't even have Falldown 4 installed anymore. The Long Dark andmodded Fallout 3 are my go to's :x

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

And I'm just glad I dodged the bullet when the PipBoy Fallout 4 version sold out before I could buy it and thus I decided to wait for the reviews before purchasing! :D

I agree though that the power armor is a mixed blessing. It is way too common in Commonwealth (a full suit, untouched, in a raider base, for 200 years? really?), it doesn't really feel like infantry armor (I tore through an army of super mutants in power armor... but my suit is being shredded by claws?), and the battery thing is a cheap gimmick. Rather than make power armor rare, or hard to use, or as an incentive to join the brotherhood, or any better idea the devs just decided "lets give away these things like candy but make them batter powered so players have another status bar to manage". The earlier Fallout games did a way better job. 

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 7/8/2017 at 11:44 AM, cekivi said:

I agree though that the power armor is a mixed blessing. It is way too common in Commonwealth

Yes, there is way too much power armor in the game.  I even built a warehouse to display it all.

I actually enjoyed Fallout 4 for the survival mode and I have Long Dark for that, as I wouldn't have tried it otherwise. 

Power armor warehouse.jpg

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@cekivi @writeright1 Yup you both hit it on the head on the poor implementation of Falldown 4's power armor.  The first time you find it you feel lucky but after a while you realize that power armor is given away like high school diplomas :P

 @writeright1 I gotta say that The Long Dark is the best survival game I've ever played, but think I should note that Imp's More Complex Needs (mod) for Fallout 3 comes pretty close.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now