ChillPlayer

Poll: Get rid of Cabin Fever

Get rid of Cabin Fever  

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I think two primary adjustments should be made to CF at a minimum.

First, the 'time indoors' to reach CF should be tied to a particular location.  So if you sit inside the same house for 3 days straight, etc.  But if you're in coastal home one day, and the garage the next, and one of the fishing shacks the next ... it doesn't make sense to me that being in these different indoor locations is all contributing to me going crazy from being indoors.

Second, time spent being productive indoors shouldn't count against you.  If you're repairing clothing, cooking food, breaking down furniture, crafting clothing, making torches, reading books ... it makes no sense to me that the character is going to go crazy.  He/she is actively engaging their mind.  He/she has a purpose and a mission.

I think CF should be tied to doing absolutely nothing in a single location.  I wouldn't even mind if the time to catch it was shorter if these revisions were made, although I don't think it needs to be.

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@BIGwooly I think you just fixed CF :D

Those are probably the best adjustments to still have CF act as a counter to hibernation without feeling arbitrary or punishing you for playing with a survival mind. Curious that I couldn't put my finger on it but when I think about it that's exactly why CF bothers me so much. I am changing locations, moving around the maps, spending my time inside productive but still get punished for doing the obvious thing when it's -30C outside.

I hope the devs will read your answer and think about those adjustments, it would take away the frustration from doing stupid things simply to not catch CF and it would let us play again in a natural way as one would do in a real survival situation.

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Haha, thanks man.  I'd be pretty happy with those changes, or at the very very least ... don't penalize us for doing productive activities indoors.  For me, the way CF currently works, it breaks immersion by forcing me to play against a game mechanic in a way that makes no sense inside the game world.

It would be like if lighting too many fires in a week randomly caused you to get burned and not be able to light a fire for 24 hours.  Instead of playing to survive you're now focusing on the number of fires you're lighting.  It's immersion breaking and doesn't add value to the gameplay.

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4 minutes ago, BIGwooly said:

It would be like if lighting too many fires in a week randomly caused you to get burned and not be able to light a fire for 24 hours.  Instead of playing to survive you're now focusing on the number of fires you're lighting.  It's immersion breaking and doesn't add value to the gameplay.

don't put bad ideas into the devs head lol, they might actually implement this :S But yeah, it's a perfect analogy for what's wrong with CF.

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Just now, ChillPlayer said:

don't put bad ideas into the devs head lol, they might actually implement this :S But yeah, it's a perfect analogy for what's wrong with CF.

LLOL

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6 hours ago, BIGwooly said:

repairing clothing, cooking food, breaking down furniture, crafting clothing, making torches, reading books

 Most of this should be done outside to avoid cabin fever. :P

Edited by Carbon

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6 hours ago, Carbon said:

 Most of this should be done outside to avoid cabin fever. :P

and that's wrong.

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 I was joking....chill, player. :P

 Look, I fundamentally agreed with you on page 1, so no need to keep telling me how you feel....I get it. :)

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15 hours ago, BIGwooly said:

I think two primary adjustments should be made to CF at a minimum.

First, the 'time indoors' to reach CF should be tied to a particular location.  So if you sit inside the same house for 3 days straight, etc.  But if you're in coastal home one day, and the garage the next, and one of the fishing shacks the next ... it doesn't make sense to me that being in these different indoor locations is all contributing to me going crazy from being indoors.

Second, time spent being productive indoors shouldn't count against you.  If you're repairing clothing, cooking food, breaking down furniture, crafting clothing, making torches, reading books ... it makes no sense to me that the character is going to go crazy.  He/she is actively engaging their mind.  He/she has a purpose and a mission.

I think CF should be tied to doing absolutely nothing in a single location.  I wouldn't even mind if the time to catch it was shorter if these revisions were made, although I don't think it needs to be.

A big +1 for these two suggestions.

The second aspect has been suggested numerous times in the past and I still support it wholeheartedly because it would imo counteract a lot of the current arbitrary gameplay choices one needs to make to avoid cabin fever. (It's e.g. not very intuitive to craft your fur clothes or melt water outside on purpose at temperatures around -35°C like I usually do on Interloper).

I also like the first idea a lot. Might encourage players to keep a bit on the move in a way that feels rather natural. At least more natural than spending your nights inside caves to compensate indoor clothing crafting times.

@Patrick Carlson : I think this poll shows quite impressively that the majority of players isn't really happy with the implementation of cabin fever in its current state. Could you please forward the suggestions mentioned above (or other ideas from cabin fever-related threads made in the past) to the Dev team? Even if it's already to late to ask for big changes regarding current mechanics before the release of Wintermute, it's definitely something the team might want to focus on in the long run.

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I am playing the Nomad challenge right now and it feels like an antidode to the constant fear of CF lol. Staying for 3 days in a single location, just sleeping/resting and nothing else todo, you know, as it used to be, makes it abundandtly clear to me why it was necessary to introduce CF as a countmeasure to hibernation. It just went a bit too far, with the two suggestions @BIGwooly made we would have a CF mechanic that feels resonable while still preventing hibernation.

@Scyzara thanks for bringind Patrick and (hopefully) the devs on board, I wanted to give you a hundred reputation points but I'm not allowed to give out more than one :D

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Here's my impressions on Cabin Fever

Recap - What is cabin fever in reality?
It is a feeling of restlessness, unease, irritability and frustration after being confined indoors or in a single location for a period of time and experiencing prolonged boredom.

It is not primarily caused by spending too much time indoors, instead it is a result of boredom. 

Recap - Why is this a game mechanic?
To prevent hibernation gameplay, where a person spends like 90% of their time in bed either sleeping or passing time, starving and consuming few calories. Basically 'breaking' the game.

But does the cabin fever prevent this?

Not really. It is still not much effort for someone who has all the best clothing and stocked up on supplies (the prerequisite for hibernation) to spend some time in a fishing hut, in a cave, or other environment. Instead this mechanic is forcing regular players to play in an illogical way.

What causes cabin fever in reality?
In reality it is caused by boredom or a period of not very stimulating activity. 

It is not caused by just spending time indoors. If this were the case I would personally have perpetual cabin fever due to working in an office and studying at uni, where I spend maybe 1-2 hours outside each day for an entire week, while I study on the weekends or relax watching TV or playing computer in the evening. I think many people have a similar psychology.

What should be the symptoms of cabin fever and how should it be cured?
Symptoms in reality are restlessness, unease, irritability and frustration.
The symptom is not the urge to sleep outside.

I think it should be cured and prevented by doing constructive things, whether inside or outside, but preferably outside. Sleeping outside is not constructive, I do not know why this cures cabin fever. (I know this is not the actual cure ingame, but it is the practical cure that players do)

I think the symptoms would be best represented in the game as not wanting to be able to 'pass time', do crafting (once you have cabin fever, but crafting should not contribute to contracting it), loss of appetite, inability to sleep for long periods of time. This would actually achieve what the mechanic is setting out to accomplish much better than what we currently have, plus it makes much more sense.

How can the game monitor constructive activity?
Either:
1. Look at the amount of real time vs game time.
2. Look at what the person has achieved in game each day. Distance traveled, locations visited, things crafted, hunting performed, wolf struggles etc
3. Simply only look at the amount of time spent 'Passing time' using the wait feature.

Personal experience:
When I play interloper and have spent more than 6 hours to get just 10 days into my survival, I should not get cabin fever because that time is indicative of me doing stuff! I literately spend every hour outside I possibly can while there is no blizzard (even during the night) and yet I get cabin fever because there is a blizzard like 80% of the time. I have done heaps of walking, hunting, crafting etc and I feel like I have been extremely active in game, yet I get cabin fever.

I should not have to play like an insane person who wants to sleep outdoors in a blizzard when there is a cozy warm and safe bed several metres away.

Edited by Renegade30
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@Renegade30 Excellent post.

I particularly like your proposed symptoms, cure and monitoring ideas - though I would add one small proviso - only allow the 'on-the-fly' crafting recipes (old mans beard dressing/torches/fishing lines/etc)

'Passing time' would be a pretty good measure. Leave bashing all the furniture until you need to take out your frustration of boredom :) 

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On 7/2/2017 at 4:55 AM, Scyzara said:

A big +1 for these two suggestions.

The second aspect has been suggested numerous times in the past and I still support it wholeheartedly because it would imo counteract a lot of the current arbitrary gameplay choices one needs to make to avoid cabin fever. (It's e.g. not very intuitive to craft your fur clothes or melt water outside on purpose at temperatures around -35°C like I usually do on Interloper).

I also like the first idea a lot. Might encourage players to keep a bit on the move in a way that feels rather natural. At least more natural than spending your nights inside caves to compensate indoor clothing crafting times.

@Patrick Carlson : I think this poll shows quite impressively that the majority of players isn't really happy with the implementation of cabin fever in its current state. Could you please forward the suggestions mentioned above (or other ideas from cabin fever-related threads made in the past) to the Dev team? Even if it's already to late to ask for big changes regarding current mechanics before the release of Wintermute, it's definitely something the team might want to focus on in the long run.

Thanks @Scyzara. I will certainly forward the poll results. 

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@Patrick Carlson, thank you for taking an interest in these polls and notifying us it is being looked into, we know that a change is not guaranteed but it reassures us.

We can keep cabin fever, but changing mechanics on it would be nice such as:

Actively doing thigs inside such as reading books and mending clothes should stall cabin fever and maybe count as half the hours being "outside", also, i believe deer should become more scarce over time and wolves more agressive in areas with less deer to simulate theyre hungry.

While someones currently hypothermic or below 50 percent condition they should be able to ignore cabin fever's effects save for maybe a reduction in how much resting recovers the players condition.

Also, another way to fight hibernation (since cabin fever originally was supposed to fight this), is to make calories go in the negatives and require players to bring it back above zero to recover condition.

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 Sure....sleeping and passing time are the only things that factor into the risk of cabin fever. If one is busy crafting, mending, cooking, reading, etc, then no problem, no risk.

Edited by Carbon

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Quote

 Sure....sleeping and passing time are the only things that factor into the risk of cabin fever. If one is busy crafting, mending, cooking, reading, etc, then no problem, no risk.

This doesn't go far enough as it is still punishing players for playing the game as intended.

Just to add some more after my last comment... It's kind of ridiculous at the moment with cabin fever, especially on interloper. I find myself being forced to perform repetitive tasks such as sleeping in a snow shelter or hanging out in a fishing cabin, instead of travelling to different locations to explore them. This is because when you travel in interloper you are forced to hang out indoors for a while while your condition recovers, as it is too difficult to set up snow shelters as you go and if you don't have a bedroll you can't sleep in a cave.

I literately just did this in the past 5 days in mystery lake:

Camp office (after 12 hours of recovery)->foraging & Forestry lookout (spent 6-8 hours resting)->train wreckage & harvesting carcass ->camp office (spent 8-10 hours to recover) -> Carter dam (raided the whole place, was completely exhausted but no bedroll) -> logging cabins (spent 8-10 hours to recover)... Got 60% chance of cabin fever.

This is normal behavior in the game, I started at roughly ~50% condition and I played the game instead of trying to take it easy to regain condition and I ended up accomplishing a lot while I regained my condition to 100%, yet I got a chance of cabin fever. I feel I am spending as much time outdoors as I can while I perform these tasks.

The game is forcing me to break my routine to perform repetitive tasks which are not interesting, I am really looking forward to hinterland fixing this broken mechanic because it is just not fun at all.

Edited by Renegade30

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8 hours ago, Renegade30 said:

This doesn't go far enough as it is still punishing players for playing the game as intended.

Just to add some more after my last comment... It's kind of ridiculous at the moment with cabin fever, especially on interloper. I find myself being forced to perform repetitive tasks such as sleeping in a snow shelter or hanging out in a fishing cabin, instead of travelling to different locations to explore them. This is because when you travel in interloper you are forced to hang out indoors for a while while your condition recovers, as it is too difficult to set up snow shelters as you go and if you don't have a bedroll you can't sleep in a cave.

I literately just did this in the past 5 days in mystery lake:

Camp office (after 12 hours of recovery)->foraging & Forestry lookout (spent 6-8 hours resting)->train wreckage & harvesting carcass ->camp office (spent 8-10 hours to recover) -> Carter dam (raided the whole place, was completely exhausted but no bedroll) -> logging cabins (spent 8-10 hours to recover)... Got 60% chance of cabin fever.

This is normal behavior in the game, I started at roughly ~50% condition and I played the game instead of trying to take it easy to regain condition and I ended up accomplishing a lot while I regained my condition to 100%, yet I got a chance of cabin fever. I feel I am spending as much time outdoors as I can while I perform these tasks.

The game is forcing me to break my routine to perform repetitive tasks which are not interesting, I am really looking forward to hinterland fixing this broken mechanic because it is just not fun at all.

 So one has to ask, how was the game intended to be played? Apparently the people who made the game believe differently from you; your idea seems to be staying inside most of the time while theirs was to have players get out and keep moving. I'm not arguing for the idea of cabin fever here, but against your claim regarding the intention behind the game.

 Maybe play on a lower difficulty. I've got 300 RL hours into the game and consider myself to be a decent enough player, but Interloper is just too much for me. Not only would I certainly meet my fate sooner than I might want, but I don't like to play under those harsh conditions. You seem to want your character's duration to be longer than your desired play style or skill allows as well, a perfect argument for playing on an easier difficulty.

Edited by Carbon

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1 hour ago, Carbon said:

 Snip

Ive got nearly 300 hours and have survived 70+ days in interloper as a personal best, i love the difficulty and i have no problem dealing with cabin fever. That is not my argument, you should read my other post aswell. Cabin fever was brought in to prevent hibernation gameplay, that is the reason for it, it should do this without preventing regular gameplay.

My argument is that when you play on interloper it is impossible to stay outside for more than half an hour in game time before you start freezing, so losing condition as you go place to place is inevitable. Also, depending on the region, blizzards can be there for more than half of the day, which is a good challenge because it prevents you from making long distance travels. All this reduces your condition quite a bit to just travel a short distance, so you have to rest for 8 hours at least just to regain condition enough to continue.

So instead of exploring and pushing my limits and playing in a fun, logical way i am forced to peform uninteresting tasks to negate cabin fever. I have to now go back to the camp office so i can sit in a fishing hut and i may aswell fish while i do this. So now i will have more food which forces me to hang around longer due to smell and weight, doing repetitive tasks like reading in a cave during the day, eating and sleeping, ie borderline hibernation gameplay. This is actually what cabin fever is trying to prevent.

My point is the current mechanic actually forces people to stay in one location on interloper because travelling is difficult. On my previous run i spent a good 30-50 days living on jackrabbit island sleeping in a snow cave during the afternoon and going out to explore every few days while pelts and branches cured etc. My biggest fear about leaving to a new region was getting cabin fever, how does this make any sense as a gameplay mechanic in its current state?

The cabin fever mechanic is literally self defeating.

Edited by Renegade30
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2 hours ago, Renegade30 said:

The cabin fever mechanic is literally self defeating.

 No, it's not. Literally. ;) I think you mean somehow 'contradictory' or 'conflicting'.

 I've read your posts carefully, as I do with anyone to whom I reply. That's why this...

2 hours ago, Renegade30 said:

i love the difficulty and i have no problem dealing with cabin fever.

...seems odd when compared to this...

11 hours ago, Renegade30 said:

Camp office (after 12 hours of recovery)->foraging & Forestry lookout (spent 6-8 hours resting)->train wreckage & harvesting carcass ->camp office (spent 8-10 hours to recover) -> Carter dam (raided the whole place, was completely exhausted but no bedroll) -> logging cabins (spent 8-10 hours to recover)... Got 60% chance of cabin fever.

  Anyhow.

On 7/3/2017 at 1:38 PM, Renegade30 said:

Recap - Why is this a game mechanic?
To prevent hibernation gameplay, where a person spends like 90% of their time in bed either sleeping or passing time, starving and consuming few calories. Basically 'breaking' the game.

 Here you state that hibernation breaks the game but where you seem to diverge from this understanding is with the numbers; the current calculations are below 90%, but this does not mean that a lesser number would not break the game. Its hibernation that breaks the game, the number is just a corollary. So it seems then that the definition of hibernation is in dispute, not the idea of cabin fever in and of itself.

 Much of the rest of the quoted post talks about reality - which I have argued many times has no place in a discussion regarding the game's reality - and you offer a solution in the form of "constructive activity". I replied to this idea directly to which you then said that it didn't go far enough although in fact, I was essentially paraphrasing you. I said that sleeping and passing time are the only indoor activities that should count towards contracting cabin fever, a.k.a.; constructive activities wouldn't count. I maintain that it does go far enough and that its a reasonable and relatively simple solution. I think we agree here actually. Your other ideas:

On 7/3/2017 at 1:38 PM, Renegade30 said:

1. Look at the amount of real time vs game time.

 I have no idea first what this means. It's mind-bending to consider how this might work actually, but I'm sure you'll illuminate my dark ignorance. ;)

On 7/3/2017 at 1:38 PM, Renegade30 said:

2. Look at what the person has achieved in game each day. Distance traveled, locations visited, things crafted, hunting performed, wolf struggles etc

 Travel, hunting, wolf fighting and visiting locations all imply being outside, but its the duration that is important, not what one is doing. One could easily visit some nearby locations, hunt something or fight a wolf daily and quickly. Distance traveled (= time outdoors) makes no sense to be on this list; if you are reaching a distance set by the developers - and one would assume that this distance would correlate to their current requirements for 'outdoor time' -  then you would be outside sufficiently long to avoid cabin fever anyway. It wouldn't make sense for the developers to set a distance quota which requires little time to satisfy, if cabin fever is to remain something formidable in the game (that would be truly self-defeating).

 So, again, I was not and am not arguing for the idea of cabin fever (quite the opposite if you read my earlier posts). I actually don't think it should be implemented at all; if one wishes to hibernate, go ahead. It sounds boring and pointless, but whatever blows your hair back. You paid for it, so whatever.

 However, your claims indicate that interloper simply isn't for you. You don't complain about the intensity or frequency of blizzards, the outdoor temperatures, the lack of decent clothing in the world all of which directly correlate to your problem with cabin fever. If the weather were warmer, the clothing found better or the blizzards fewer, cabin fever wouldn't be an issue. Thus, by your rationale, all of the things listed above are "self defeating".

 In fact, these things are the very cause of cabin fever, or at least the factors which motivate you to stay indoors provoking it so wouldn't it thus be more reasonable to have these scaled back a bit? You don't argue for that however; no mention of weather temperature, etc...and why? Perhaps because Interloper is seen as some kind of badge of honor and pride, the 'real survivalists' wouldn't be caught dead playing anything else. Yet, you are in reality taking issue with many aspects exclusive to Interloper, hence my claim that you should play on a lower difficulty. You can rail against cabin fever all you want but the truth is you need to look at the cause of your cabin fever and see that's its systemic and inherent to Interloper.

Edit: I see in another post your want sliders to tune the game. Yes, your ideas speak to just that; you want certain aspects of Interloper but not others...à la carte. Well, that says it all really.

Edited by Carbon

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57 minutes ago, Carbon said:

 No, it's not. Literally. ;) I think you mean somehow 'contradictory' or 'conflicting'.

My point is that travelling and doing constructive things like exploring new locations actually causes cabin fever indirectly.

57 minutes ago, Carbon said:

...seems odd when compared to this...

This is cherry picking and goes to show you don't understand, maybe you should try and get past the 1 week mark in interloper to see what I mean.

I just said I spent a good 30-50 days doing not much of anything, much less than I did in my example in mystery lake, but because I had a snow shelter where I spent my afternoons sleeping, cabin fever was not an issue.

If I wanted to I could have stayed around the camp office, fishing day in day out, going to the cave for periods of time and completely avoided cabin fever. Instead I wanted to explore, which indirectly gave me a chance cabin fever, which is crazy.

This did not happen unexpectedly either, I knew I would have to 'spend time outdoors' at the end of it, I am just resentful because I was actually doing engaging and interesting things in the game which is the antithesis of cabin fever.

57 minutes ago, Carbon said:

 Much of the rest of the quoted post talks about reality - which I have argued many times has no place in a discussion regarding the game's reality 

I talk about reality because the current implementation is both nonsensical and illogical. Who would think that in a survival game the only way to survive is by sleeping in a snow shelter, adjacent to a warm and safe building? Or spending time in a dark cave in a bedroll while a blizzard is happening, instead of in a warm bed? Lots of people die in the game due to cabin fever because they don't understand the mechanic and those that do are forced to play like an insane person with no survival logic. Games should reflect reality in as much as the rules of the game are rational.

57 minutes ago, Carbon said:

 I have no idea first what this means. It's mind-bending to consider how this might work actually, but I'm sure you'll illuminate my dark ignorance. ;)

What I mean is if you spend 6 hours to only get 5 days, then that is indicative of you doing things in the game and not sleeping\passing time. If I spend 15 minutes to get 5 days then that is indicative of me hibernating.

57 minutes ago, Carbon said:

 Travel, hunting, wolf fighting and visiting locations all imply being outside, but its the duration that is important, not what one is doing. One could easily visit some nearby locations, hunt something or fight a wolf daily and quickly. Distance traveled (= time outdoors) makes no sense to be on this list; if you are reaching a distance set by the developers - and one would assume that this distance would correlate to their current requirements for 'outdoor time' -  then you would be outside sufficiently long to avoid cabin fever anyway. It wouldn't make sense for the developers to set a distance quota which requires little time to satisfy, if cabin fever is to remain something formidable in the game (that would be truly self-defeating).

I meant for all these tasks to be looked at congruently.

Why should duration be important? I think the number of tasks and variation of tasks accomplished should be.

Distance traveled can not be equated to just spending time outdoors. If I travel from one region to the next in interloper there is a very high chance I get cabin fever because I spent slightly longer indoors to warm up and regain my condition while I travel over several days during the 5 or so hours where I won't get instantly frozen. Travelling indicates you are exploring, where as I could have spent 5 days hibernating in a bedroll inside of a cave and not get cabin fever. What is formidable about this? It is just annoying.

57 minutes ago, Carbon said:

However, your claims indicate that interloper simply isn't for you. You don't complain about the intensity or frequency of blizzards, the outdoor temperatures, the lack of decent clothing in the world all of which directly correlate to your problem with cabin fever. If the weather were warmer, the clothing found better or the blizzards fewer, cabin fever wouldn't be an issue. Thus, by your rationale, all of the things listed above are "self defeating". In fact, these things are the very cause of cabin fever, or at least the factors which motivate you to stay indoors provoking it so wouldn't it thus be more reasonable to have these scaled back a bit? You don't argue for that however; you seem to want to stay inside. Hence, my claim that you should play on a lower difficulty.

So your logic is that because a single mechanic (cabin fever) breaks a whole system of mechanics (blizzards, outdoor temperature etc) I should just not play that difficulty, seriously? I love the blizzards, outdoor temperatures, lack of decent clothing etc. Some of my first posts on the forum, before interloper was a thing, were arguing for a new difficulty where weather was the enemy, not wolves. Interloper is what I always wanted from this game.

It's not that I want to stay inside, its that I don't want to spend my time sleeping in a cave, snow shelter or fishing hut when I could be going out and exploring instead, just because of an arbitrary ratio of indoor\outdoor time.

I enjoy playing interloper, I do well with the difficulty, and cabin fever presents no serious challenge, but it forces me to do things that are both not fun, repetitive and illogical, which in my eyes breaks the game more than hibernation ever did. This is why it is self defeating.

EDIT

Quote

Edit: I see in another post your want sliders to tune the game. Yes, your ideas speak to just that; you want certain aspects of Interloper but not others...à la carte. Well, that says it all really.

Wow, you're toxic, what is your problem? Are you just being hostile for the sake of it? First you say I am not skilled enough, then you say I should play a lower difficulty and then you say this. Are we not allowed to make suggestions or want to play the game in the way we want to and just accept the way the game is? If you're looking for an argument then forget it i'm done talking to you.

Edited by Renegade30
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 Highly reactionary reply Renegade.

 Toxic? But not wrong. I'm fine with you thinking that. I was very civil in my post and took much time to reply thoughtfully; a waste apparently.

  I could easily go through your post and argue (in the proper sense of the word) each point, but why bother? You are already name calling, completely closed and defensive, all due to a stranger challenging your ideas. It won't get any better I'm afraid, so as I said, call me what you will but I'm not wrong and it seems you'd best get acquainted with humility. Suffice it to say that your post is essentially backpedaling, innuendo, and some strange bravado.

 Anyhow, a tip for future reference: don't ever write to "me" or anyone on forums...discuss words, speak to ideas because you know nothing of the person writing them. This helps keep a conversation civilized and avoids the need to babysit fragile egos.

 Enjoy your great victories in Interloper. And get outside already man...you'll go crazy out there at the lake. :P 

 

Edited by Carbon

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1 hour ago, Carbon said:

  I could easily go through your post and argue (in the proper sense of the word) each point, but why bother? You are already name calling, completely closed and defensive, all due to a stranger challenging your ideas. It won't get any better I'm afraid, so as I said, call me what you will but I'm not wrong and it seems you'd best get acquainted with humility. Suffice it to say that your post is essentially backpedaling, innuendo, and some strange bravado.

Perhaps don't create arguments that are centered around trying to derail what someone is saying and they won't close you out. I was making suggestions to improve the problems I see in the game and you essentially instead tell me that I should just quit playing interloper and suggest very obnoxiously that I just want everything my way. If you had instead directed your attention to the mechanics of the game I am talking about and away from trying to get one up on me I wouldn't have become defensive.

1 hour ago, Carbon said:

 Anyhow, a tip for future reference: don't ever write to "me" or anyone on forums...discuss words, speak to ideas because you know nothing of the person writing them. This helps keep a conversation civilized and avoids the need to babysit fragile egos.

Take your own advice.

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 Look, I won't drag this out, but you engaged me initially and wrote quite a bit relating to why my ideas "didn't go far enough". I then wrote to your argument and if I truly derailed it, then it was weak. I am in no way concerned about you personally closing me out; I was only concerned with the argument and you continuing to hold up your end of it in a reasonable manner.

 I only told you that a lower level might be best after a lot of reasoning why; I am a horribly pedantic person and I rarely say anything without substantiation. I disagree with your assessment that I was obnoxious; you seem quite sensitive to criticism and if you can admit that, then perhaps you could also re-read my posts and see them in a more neutral light. Either way, I never intend to antagonize but I am also not going to coddle.

 Finally, I do take my own advice. I write carefully and considerately (did I mention what a pedant I was?) and think quite carefully before replying, as I have also done here. I do not talk about posters, but posts and only address words, not people. It is sage advice to allow your ideas to be challenged and criticized without taking it personally; think of it as a kind of peer review. If we put forward an idea and allow it to be looked at from every angle - not only the ones we see or agree with - the idea will either emerge stronger and better for it or weaker and can be dismissed.

 Anyhow, I don't want to cause you any stress or grief, so accept this olive branch. If you go back over the thread, we have more agreement than not, so let's focus on that. Peace. :)

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All I know is it's hard to stay upset at anyone who posts a clip from Fargo. Lets make Minnesota Nice and move on. :)

(Bonus points for imagining Steve Buscemi swearing profusely and flailing around out on Mystery Lake. In fact, that's going to be the name of the Cabin Office corpse from now on. Steve Buscemi.)

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On Sunday, July 02, 2017 at 7:55 AM, Scyzara said:

A big +1 for these two suggestions.

The second aspect has been suggested numerous times in the past and I still support it wholeheartedly because it would imo counteract a lot of the current arbitrary gameplay choices one needs to make to avoid cabin fever. (It's e.g. not very intuitive to craft your fur clothes or melt water outside on purpose at temperatures around -35°C like I usually do on Interloper).

I also like the first idea a lot. Might encourage players to keep a bit on the move in a way that feels rather natural. At least more natural than spending your nights inside caves to compensate indoor clothing crafting times.

@Patrick Carlson : I think this poll shows quite impressively that the majority of players isn't really happy with the implementation of cabin fever in its current state. Could you please forward the suggestions mentioned above (or other ideas from cabin fever-related threads made in the past) to the Dev team? Even if it's already to late to ask for big changes regarding current mechanics before the release of Wintermute, it's definitely something the team might want to focus on in the long run.

So did we ever get an answer on this?

I was only wondering because I agree with what is being said about not counting time spend doing important activities like, mending clothes, reading research books, and crafting things.

The way I understood it, cabin fever was implemented simply to stop people from just clocking up days survived on the leader boards by hibernating in doors all day not doing anything.

It shouldn't be here to grief people trying to actually play the game the correct way...

So is there any chance it will be tweaked in the near future?

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