One Last Addition...  

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Faithful cartographer has been marketed as the final sandbox update. Unfortunately, this means that many forum requests and items from the aspirational road map likely are not going to make the final release. A consequence of time and other constraints. I just thought it would be nice to make sort of a "top three" list of things to add if there is time between now and July 31st (August will be needed for certification). 

Rules are simple: If you're posting an idea put it in bold, only one idea per user, please make it your personal #1 wish list item, and follow up the idea with a short (1 paragraph max) explanation. Discussion is encouraged ;)

Assuming there are a lot of responses I'll make a poll for the ideas in about 2 weeks and then lock the thread after people get a chance to vote.  

Cheers!

 

Edited by cekivi
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Blizzards can blow you off course

More than candles, spears, and moose I would love it if blizzards were made more threatening environmental hazards. As it is, you can cross the entire map in a blizzard and not get lost because your character never deviates from a straight line. Not only is this not true in real life (walking a straight line with no visual references is very hard) but it makes blizzards less of a challenge in the game. As it is, I use blizzards to cross maps safely as I know animals won't spawn in them. Having the wind gust, seeing your arm come up to shield your eyes, dropping your head down, and having the game randomly turn your body ever so slightly left or right would make storms into a deadly hazard for the unprepared and make navigating much more challenging. Better still, if you get lost, your map may save your life if you see a landmark you recognize. In conclusion, I think allowing blizzards to blow you off course would make the game more challenging, give blizzard's back their teeth, and further integrate first person presence and cartography into the final game. 

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Food, water and other consumables freeze in subzero temperatures

As it stands, the only things seemingly affected by the temperature is your warmth-meter and carcasses. A previously requested feature that I have yet to see incorporated into the game is frozen items. Water bottles particularly - it's unreasonable to find a 1 litre water bottle on a corpse that's been sitting in -20 degrees Celsius conditions for the past 5 days, and find its contents to still be liquid. Foods should also freeze and have a drastically reduced decay rate as a result, at the expense of more fuel required to thaw and cook them.
Quartering frozen carcasses would also be safer, as frozen meat smells less than fresh meat, and so wolves would be less attracted to frozen quarters than fresh quarters.
This should also apply to toilet cisterns and other potable water sources where you either have to smash the upper layer to access the water, or forego collection altogether because it is frozen solid. This,  I feel, would add more challenge and difficulty to the game overall.

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Wolf Packs in Stalker - because wolves naturally travel in packs, perhaps even geomagnetically zapped ones.  And it would awesome to deal with the pack and just the pack.  And to see them take down a bear and fight another pack.

Spear - seems like a no-brainer, as mentioned elsewhere.

Polar bears - big white ones.  Maybe they wandered down from the Arctic thanks to global cooling. Would add some bear variety.

Less emphasis on eating - I've heard of the primal diet but one wolf per day? The human body adapts to its environment. A wolf should last at least a week.

Multi-task while cooking.  Too bad about that one.

The ability to chop down trees.

Salvage metal from the car engines.

Seeing a wolf dig up and carry away meat you've stored on the corpses.  Why wouldn't they?

Lastly, just less emphasis on being difficult (to satisfy all the uber-tough guys) and more emphasis on being interesting and flexible.  Sewing up a makeshift jacket with drapes, and so on.  Really your survival here would depend on your creativity and resiliency not so much how tough you are, whatever that means.

Sorry couldn't limit myself to just three!!

 

Edited by diggity
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But the goal is to limit yourself to just one ;)

All of the things mentioned are good ideas... but if you had to only pick one, which would it be? That is the more interesting exercise :D 

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45 minutes ago, cekivi said:

But the goal is to limit yourself to just one ;)

All of the things mentioned are good ideas... but if you had to only pick one, which would it be? That is the more interesting exercise :D 

I'll go with Wolf Packs then - Stalker wolves are just ...annoying. But one big or even small pack, led by an alpha wolf like Fluffy would really change the dynamic.

Edited by diggity
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5 hours ago, diggity said:

Less emphasis on eating - I've heard of the primal diet but one wolf per day? The human body adapts to its environment. A wolf should last at least a week.

You're eating a whole wolf per day? O.o:o

You are seriously over-feeding your character, mate. There's no need to keep them stuffed to the gills 24/7. ("Starving" means they're just really, really hungry, not that they're about to drop dead.)

Edited by JAFO
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23 hours ago, JAFO said:

You're eating a whole wolf per day? O.o:o

You are seriously over-feeding your character, mate. There's no need to keep them stuffed to the gills 24/7. ("Starving" means they're just really, really hungry, not that they're about to drop dead.)

So what do you do when your char keeps nagging "Man, all I can think about is FOOD!" and the like? Ignore it?

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39 minutes ago, diggity said:

So what do you do when your char keeps nagging "Man, all I can think about is FOOD!" and the like? Ignore it?

If they're not running on empty, yep.. ignore it. If they are running on empty, I'll still ignore it, subject to the provisos below.

If they still have calories in the tank, their condition won't drop. If the tank is dry, condition will drop very slowly, far more slowly than if they're dehydrated. As in real life, we can go a lot longer without food, than we can without water. If my character's condition is down by 10-20% by the end of the day, due to hunger, so be it. I make sure they have at least 800-1000 calories of food before sleep, and have drunk their fill of water. 8+ hours of sleep (generally 10 hours, which is about as long as you can go before dehydration sets in) will bring their condition back up to 100%. They get "breakfast" of 800-1000 calories (assuming it's available), and a full drink of water, and that will suffice for the day's activities. I'll keep the water supply up, but they generally won't eat again until bedtime. 2000-2500 calories a day is plenty, and if food is scarce for some reason, they won't even get that much.

Two meals a day is it, and my characters very rarely get to enjoy a full belly.

Edited by JAFO
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2 hours ago, diggity said:

So what do you do when your char keeps nagging "Man, all I can think about is FOOD!" and the like? Ignore it?

Those voice prompts can be very helpful but once I knew the game well I just turned them off.  Option > Audio, set the Voice slider to 0.  I'll turn this back up in August for story mode, no doubt. 

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38 minutes ago, Ruruwawa said:

Those voice prompts can be very helpful but once I knew the game well I just turned them off.

I prefer keeping them on.. gives me the chance to make sarcastic wisecracks and snappy comebacks to them.

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An overhaul of the current cooking system

I know it's ridiculously unlikely to ever happen before August, but I really wish we were able to combine different kinds of food or at least prepare meat in different ways than just frying everything. Especially in the light of the cooking skill 5 description, it's really immersion-breaking for me that our character is incapable to prepare their meals any other way than either living off premade candy bars/cans or frying meat all day long.

And it would definitely be awesome to be able to boil water while reading a book or repairing some clothes at the same time. Or at least to cook multiple pieces of meat at once and not one after another. 

I personally would have taken a more interesting, complex & simultaneous cooking system over the cartographing feature or the clothing system overhaul any day... simply because it feels way more relevant for me.

Edited by Scyzara
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4 minutes ago, Scyzara said:

An overhaul of the current cooking system

I know it's ridiculously unlikely to ever happen before August, but I really wish we were able to combine different kinds of food or at least prepare meat in different ways than just frying everything. Especially in the light of the cooking skill 5 description, it's really immersion-breaking for me that our character is incapable to prepare their meals any other way than either living off premade candy bars/cans or frying meat all day long.

And it would definitely be awesome to be able to boil water while reading a book or repairing some clothes at the same time. Or at least to cook multiple pieces of meat at once and not one after another. 

I personally would have taken a more interesting, complex & simultaneous cooking system over the cartographing feature or the clothing system overhaul any day... simply because it feels way more relevant for me.

I understand your perspective.  Cooking and making water is definitely the most tedious part of the game for me.  While a more involved system would be very welcome, the multitasking & batch cooking suggestions you make would go a long way toward making these tasks less boring.  I'd happily take those as a down payment on a more involved cooking system in the future.

That said, I'm ok with the other two new gameplay systems you mention.  I didn't mind the old clothing system, but I'm not one of the reality simulator proponents.  Hinterland were getting a tonne of negative feedback about the inability to layer clothing, so one less complaint now.  On the upside the greater variety of clothing loot and paperdoll adds some fun and a way for players to identify with a character they never see in action.

I'm enjoying cartography far more than I expected.   It's encouraging me to go to corners of the world that I usually skip, and I'm feeling some accomplishment by completing the maps.   Having a new hobby is good.

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On 2017-6-10 at 0:43 AM, diggity said:

Wolf Packs in Stalker - because wolves naturally travel in packs, perhaps even geomagnetically zapped ones.  And it would awesome to deal with the pack and just the pack.  And to see them take down a bear and fight another pack.

 

While I haven't seen wolves taking down a bear, I have seen wolves spawning in the same area, like a pack. Deer can also spawn in groups.

Edited by Raf109
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Wolves do not naturally travel in packs.

Closest comparison to wolf behaviors would be military units. They move into area, set base, and then send scouts out in different directions. Whole pack moves only when they are migrating to different hunting grounds or go after large/numerous prey.

Each map could have several areas, where wolves would concentrate and rotate them, so that player would not get too used to situation, as one pack could easily move from one side of the map to another overnight. And those areas could be extremely dangerous, as aside of unusually higher concentration of wolves, they could also call in reinforcements.

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10 hours ago, JAFO said:

If they're not running on empty, yep.. ignore it. If they are running on empty, I'll still ignore it, subject to the provisos below.

If they still have calories in the tank, their condition won't drop. If the tank is dry, condition will drop very slowly, far more slowly than if they're dehydrated. As in real life, we can go a lot longer without food, than we can without water. If my character's condition is down by 10-20% by the end of the day, due to hunger, so be it. I make sure they have at least 800-1000 calories of food before sleep, and have drunk their fill of water. 8+ hours of sleep (generally 10 hours, which is about as long as you can go before dehydration sets in) will bring their condition back up to 100%. They get "breakfast" of 800-1000 calories (assuming it's available), and a full drink of water, and that will suffice for the day's activities. I'll keep the water supply up, but they generally won't eat again until bedtime. 2000-2500 calories a day is plenty, and if food is scarce for some reason, they won't even get that much.

Two meals a day is it, and my characters very rarely get to enjoy a full belly.

Haha well, mind over stomach then.  Pretty hardcore, good tips. Gonna try that out.

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6 hours ago, Dirmagnos said:

Wolves do not naturally travel in packs.

Closest comparison to wolf behaviors would be military units. They move into area, set base, and then send scouts out in different directions. Whole pack moves only when they are migrating to different hunting grounds or go after large/numerous prey.

Each map could have several areas, where wolves would concentrate and rotate them, so that player would not get too used to situation, as one pack could easily move from one side of the map to another overnight. And those areas could be extremely dangerous, as aside of unusually higher concentration of wolves, they could also call in reinforcements.

Gonna have to disagree with you there, about the packs.  I guess there's always the Lone Wolf or outsider but most sources online I looked at indicate they do travel in packs, mostly.

12390911_1123819337628988_21962850754506

"A massive pack of 25 timberwolves hunting bison on the Arctic circle in northern Canada. In mid-winter in Wood Buffalo National Park temperatures hover around -40°C. The wolf pack, led by the alpha female, travel single-file through the deep snow to save energy. The size of the pack is a sign of how rich their prey base is during winter when the bison are more restricted by poor feeding and deep snow. The wolf packs in this National Park are the only wolves in the world that specialize in hunting bison ten times their size. They have grown to be the largest and most powerful wolves on earth. "

Edited by diggity
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@diggity Yes, hunting, as it was stated in first sentence. They know where prey is and there is need for whole pack to take it down(and consume it, as they do not own trucks for some reason). They dont just randomly wander around in packs hoping to stumble on some bison in the middle of nowhere.

In this case scout probably located herd and "reported" back to staging area, so alpha rallied troops to get some snacks.

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1 hour ago, Dirmagnos said:

@diggity Yes, hunting, as it was stated in first sentence. They know where prey is and there is need for whole pack to take it down(and consume it, as they do not own trucks for some reason). They dont just randomly wander around in packs hoping to stumble on some bison in the middle of nowhere.

In this case scout probably located herd and "reported" back to staging area, so alpha rallied troops to get some snacks.

I disagree with your interpretation of the photo.  They aren't hunting, they are traveling as economically as possible.  They might be traveling to a hunting spot, but it's still travel.  Not hunting.

Of course I've seen, with my own eyes, wolves traveling in a (very tight) pack.  In real life, in the wilderness.   I had a pack of 8 individuals cross the Tatshenshini River a few meters in front of my raft.  Then watched them travel off together for several minutes.  They weren't hunting.

Edited by Ruruwawa
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10 minutes ago, Ruruwawa said:

I disagree with your interpretation of the photo.  They aren't hunting, they are traveling as economically as possible.  They might be traveling to a hunting spot, but it's still travel.  Not hunting.

Of course I've seen, with my own eyes, wolves traveling in a (very tight) pack.  In real life, in the wilderness.   I had a pack of 8 individuals cross the Tatshenshini River a few meters in front of my raft.  Then watched them travel off together for several minutes.  They weren't hunting.

Fine, travel. They travel with purpose, not just randomly jogging around.

And you know that they werent hunting how exactly ? You are capable of reading wolf minds ? Seen their destination ? Know how wolf hunting looks like ? Can make a distinction between their howling ? Able to interpret their communications ? Seen them wearing shirts "Were not hunting" ?

Or did you just saw pack of wolves crossing river and guessed ?

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1 hour ago, Dirmagnos said:

Fine, travel. They travel with purpose, not just randomly jogging around.

4 minutes ago, Ruruwawa said:

Let me get this right.  You believe that wolves are not social animals that not live most of their lives in packs.  Instead that the only time you see wolves in a pack is to hunt.

<sigh>

@Ruruwawa, the one does not preclude the other.

Yes, wolves are social pack animals. But yes, if you see an entire pack on the move, it's because they are on the way to a hunt. Wolf packs have been known to travel many tens of kilometres to reach game that was "reported in" by a scout. Being social animals doesn't mean the pack doesn't disperse much of the time. Various members of the group have "assigned" tasks, that take them far from the main pack. They may do so singly, or in a small unit of 2 or 3 members. They may be gone for days at a time, returning to the pack's den only as need or opportunity presents. But if you see the entire pack together, they'll be travelling. And the destination is pretty much guaranteed to be large game that can't be brought down by just a few pack members.

Perhaps you should let some of the excellent documentaries on the internet set you straight about wolf behaviour. ;)

Start here:

 

And here.

 

And here.

 

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12 hours ago, Scyzara said:

An overhaul of the current cooking system

I know it's ridiculously unlikely to ever happen before August, but I really wish we were able to combine different kinds of food or at least prepare meat in different ways than just frying everything. Especially in the light of the cooking skill 5 description, it's really immersion-breaking for me that our character is incapable to prepare their meals any other way than either living off premade candy bars/cans or frying meat all day long.

And it would definitely be awesome to be able to boil water while reading a book or repairing some clothes at the same time. Or at least to cook multiple pieces of meat at once and not one after another. 

I personally would have taken a more interesting, complex & simultaneous cooking system over the cartographing feature or the clothing system overhaul any day... simply because it feels way more relevant for me.

This would be my choice as well. I was very disappointed to return to the game and still not have the "improved cooking". 

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@JAFO Nice videos.  A little light on fact and heavy on the anthropomorphizing, but I'm sure they are meant as entertainment.

UPDATE for clarity: I never disagreed with Dirmagnos' statement that "wolves don't jog around randomly".  They need a lot of food to survive and naturally that means a lot of time spent hunting.  What I disagreed with (and still do) are:

Quote

Wolves do not naturally travel in packs.

Quote

if you see an entire pack on the move, it's because they are on the way to a hunt.

Ironically the "black wolf" video shows the wolves moving as a pack for three reasons that aren't hunting: 1) fleeing danger (another pack), 2) invading the territory of another pack, and 3) seeking a distant, new territory.  Wikipedia suggests two more: 4) routinely patrolling one's territory as a pack to maintain a watch against invaders and 5) moving together as a pack to search for prey when the pups are weaned but not yet old enough to disperse.

I guess if you paint with a broad enough brush you could call these 5 movement types "hunting" too since they ensure the wolves will be able to hunt at some time in the future.  IMO it doesn't do our understanding of wolves any favors to paint with such a broad brush.

Edited by Ruruwawa
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