Pillock

Some concerns about new Sandbox features

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On 5/20/2017 at 0:49 AM, SquanderBot said:

I found something similar that works well in the caves... when I find a dead end I will track back and then leave a few red berries on the ground at the opening to the dead end. They stand out really well in the dark and are a great reminder not to go that way.

I totally love this idea! Thanks.

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On 5/19/2017 at 11:49 PM, SquanderBot said:

I've been avoiding user-created maps and trying to work with purely what's included in the game. It's a good challenge. 

That said, it would be nice to have some realistic way of creating waypoints for yourself. Like if you could take a long branch, tie a piece of cloth to it, and stick it in the ground like a flag. Just something to use as a temporary reminder of where to turn or whatever.

I found something similar that works well in the caves... when I find a dead end I will track back and then leave a few red berries on the ground at the opening to the dead end. They stand out really well in the dark and are a great reminder not to go that way. In the outdoors they are not effective because you can't see them until right on top of them. You can also drop a few pieces of wood carefully in a line to point in a direction, but who wants to carry that much wood and waste it on that. I guess brightly colored ragged clothing could be used for this purpose as well.

 I'm always picking up and carrying sticks all the time. I make arrows in the snow and even sometimes signs. 

If the load of sticks gets too heavy I'll just drop 10 or 20 and continue my trek, or add them to my stockpile if I end up carrying them all the way to one of my established field bases.

 I'm not afraid to go out in the fog, night, or even in a blizzard because I will never lost.  It's also help me map where the ice is weak and where the paths through the ice in the forlorn muskeg are strong.

 It takes a little effort at the beginning but you only have to do it once.

 Because of this I do not for see myself using the map system at all.

 

As for the other newer features such as throwing rocks, I'll try them out and if it seems realistic then I'll be fine with it but if it seems "like I'm playing a game" and cheesy, I'll leave my remarks on it in the feedback forums.

I'm curious to know the opinion from someone who has actually thrown a rock at a wolf *in real life* and how that worked out for them.  

Edited by Wasteland Watcher
Clarificaton
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On 2017-05-08 at 5:13 PM, Pillock said:

I know I'm jumping the gun somewhat with this, given that we haven't seen the new Sandbox features in action yet, but I've got a few concerns about a couple of them, as described in the Dev Diary. (Note: I really don't care much about the HUD, and I don't want to get into that in this thread!)

Firstly, Cartography: the big one that gives its name to the update.

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I like the way it's described in the text, but I've got a problem with the screenshot, if that's how it's going to look. First, and most obviously, if you're using charcoal from a fire to make these maps, where does all the blue and green colouring come from?! It's absurd. On the face of it, I quite like the idea of having your character spend time sketching crude charcoal maps of the world as you find it - but this one looks like it was done by a professional illustrator using satellite imagery as a guide! It looks too detailed and too accurate for my taste, and I think I'd prefer it to look much more basic than that - both in terms of matching the 'charcoal-from-a-fire' description, and also so that it doesn't, as is claimed, make the game too much easier. There is the added danger that players will be able to judge the general scale of the map they're on - and roughly where to head to find resources - purely by the fact that (for example) Alan's Cave is on the middle-right portion of the map-page, and therefore the rest of the Points of Interest will probably be in the other direction. If the design could be made so that kind of exploit could be avoided, I think it would be an improvement. (Also, to claim that "if you don't want to use this feature and continue as before, you can!" is, frankly, quite stupid. It's a bit like saying, "if you don't like the eating mechanics, don't use them!")

 

The other point is about throwing stones and light sources:

Firstly, if throwing a torch at a wolf to scare it off is ever going to be a viable way of protecting yourself, then the campfire-lighting exploit needs to be fixed first: why would you throw your torch when you can use it to start igniting a fire instead, when that's a 100% guarantee of scaring the wolf and throwing the torch isn't?

Secondly, throwing stones at rabbits to kill them seems a bit silly to me, and is in real danger of making the game much, much easier (which isn't warranted). Obviously I need to reserve judgement to an extent until I've seen how it works in practice, but currently you can't really hunt rabbits until you're reasonably well established with a base and a workbench and some survival-time under your belt. You can live entirely on rabbits, and finding food in the early game is what makes that part most challenging and fun - I'm worried that this will be diluted. As a side-note to that, the new quartering ability also concerns me in that way if it means you don't have to risk being out in the cold for long periods to get food. We can already stay indoors to acquire warmth, water and sleep (3/4 of the basic survival needs), and so allowing players to do most of the food acquisition task inside shelter as well will potentially exacerbate this issue - we don't want to end up with the situation where the only practical reason for going outside is to avoid cabin fever.

 

I hope my assumptions about these things are wrong, and I hope the new mechanics add fun and extra challenge to the game - but I'd be interested in other people's initial reactions to the descriptions, and if genuine concerns can be raised before these features are implemented it might help the devs balance them?

Try to chill mate ... yes mapping would be nice if all done with charcoal . But I personally killed 2 prairie dog with stone in real life and quartering is just smart !! I doesnt skin my rabbit outside when its freakin -40c ?! Same thing for deer ; why risk youre health/condition by stayin outside trying to be a thug when you can do a nice ans precise job inside ?! :)

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14 hours ago, Wasteland Watcher said:

I'm curious to know the opinion from someone who has actually thrown a rock at a wolf before and how that worked out for them.  

In short, it doesn't work.. (the way you might think, anyway)

During testing, nobody succeeded in "scaring a wolf off" using rocks.

A couple of people did, however, towards the end of testing figure out how to successfully use rocks to get rid of wolves. Since some people will prefer to figure things out for themselves, I'll put it in spoiler tags.

 

The idea is to use the rocks to distract the wolves.. if you throw a rock, not at the wolf, but at some other location, the sound of the rock hitting the ground/whatever will distract the wolf, and it will head in that direction to investigate. Giving you the chance to do whatever you think best at that moment.

Edited by JAFO

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@JAFOthanks for the info--it's exactly the same thing I used to do using small calibre bullets to distract deathclaws I wanted to go around instead of fight back in the Capital Wasteland ;)

 

Also I didn't really ask my question clearly so I'll edit it now 

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8 minutes ago, Wasteland Watcher said:

Also I didn't really ask my question clearly so I'll edit it now 

Ahh.. now I see where you were going with that question..

Since, when it comes to empirical testing, wolves are somewhat scarce here in Australia, I'll just predict that it would probably work rather less well than it does with dogs..

Edited by JAFO

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13 minutes ago, JAFO said:

Ahh.. now I see where you were going with that question..

Since, when it comes to empirical testing, wolves are somewhat scarce here in Australia, I'll just predict that it would probably work rather less well than it does with dogs..

Yes,  agree--it'd most likely cause them to attack faster. I'll stick to using a combo of favourable weather+torches or brands 

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On 6/7/2017 at 8:08 PM, Wasteland Watcher said:

@JAFOthanks for the info--it's exactly the same thing I used to do using small calibre bullets to distract deathclaws I wanted to go around instead of fight back in the Capital Wasteland ;)

 

 

You are so badass! :)

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1 hour ago, KD7BCH said:

You are so badass! :)

Thanks :D

I figure if it was good enough to work there I might as well use the tactic here as well ;)

 

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On 6/7/2017 at 5:46 AM, Wasteland Watcher said:

 I'm always picking up and carrying sticks all the time.

Seriously, sticks are like my favorite item in the game. They take zero time to harvest and don't cause any wear on your tools. Sticks and cattails, that's where it's at!

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2 hours ago, SquanderBot said:

Seriously, sticks are like my favorite item in the game. They take zero time to harvest and don't cause any wear on your tools. Sticks and cattails, that's where it's at!

Exactly the same way I feel about em :)

I will admit that I currently use the no-calorie branch exploit (as do all 'vets' of this game)by breaking branches down by hand when I have zero calories in my stomach and time to kill. You can never have enough sticks :P

 

Edited by Wasteland Watcher
typos

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3 hours ago, SquanderBot said:

Seriously, sticks are like my favorite item in the game. They take zero time to harvest and don't cause any wear on your tools.

They actually do cost time and calories if you go out after them (not just picking those that you happen to find along the path you would have taken anyway). I once measured the cost of my stick hunting campaigns: the cost of walking around and picking sticks was similar to processing a cedar limb, per fire duration time.

52 minutes ago, Wasteland Watcher said:

I will admit that I currently use the no-calorie branch exploit (as do all 'vets' of this game)by breaking branches down by hand when I have zero calories in my stomach and time to kill.

Just don't do this when you are also freezing on Interloper (which you almost always are). You'll lose 3-4% condition per branch!

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1 minute ago, Drifter Man said:

Just don't do this when you are also freezing on Interloper (which you almost always are). You'll lose 3-4% condition per branch!

Thank you very much for the tip! Someday when I'm in the mood for a real challenge and start Interloper I will definitely remember this!
I do this in Voyageur but only if my clothing is enough to keep my body temp at least above zero C :)

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