junglegreen

STARTING FIRES

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Has there been a mod in the near past as I have had trouble starting fires since Sunday  not only outdoors but in my home base. used to be approx. 90% at the best but has dropped to 70%.

    Still a good   game though

 

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There are two factors for starting a fire: your skill and the materials you use.  I'm guessing it's a change in materials that is causing your drop in fire starting chance.  Wooden matches have a better % chance than paper matches.  Sticks or Cedar has a better chance than Fir or Reclaimed wood.  A book is even better!

Use the left/right arrows beside the different each of the fire starting materials to tweak for the best chance of starting.  I'll often start a fire with a book or stick as my initial fuel, simply to boost the fire starting chances.  Then add harder-to-light fuel after the fire is going.

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7 hours ago, junglegreen said:

Has there been a mod in the near past as I have had trouble starting fires since Sunday  not only outdoors but in my home base. used to be approx. 90% at the best but has dropped to 70%.

    Still a good   game though

 

No @junglegreen, we've haven't altered the fire starting chance recently. As posted above, it may be that the default materials in the fire UI changed on you as you picked up different fuel, etc. Try starting a fire with a lit torch -- it can improve your chances!

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Regarding the chance %, I never understood why the stove doesnt give a bonus: We have exactly the same chance to light up a fire in the wild over the snow, than in a stove, or a barrel... that doesnt make a lot of sense...

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5 hours ago, McGuffin said:

Regarding the chance %, I never understood why the stove doesnt give a bonus: We have exactly the same chance to light up a fire in the wild over the snow, than in a stove, or a barrel... that doesnt make a lot of sense...

Or perhaps a longer burning time or slightly warmer or both really.  Right now, the only real advantage is you don't have that pesky wind blowing out the fire problem.  Mind you I'm not complaining, I'll take that protection.

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@McGuffin Good points. Perhaps they could balance it by making the fire burn hotter in a stove and thus plow through fuel faster? Cook things quicker?

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2 hours ago, Crocket said:

@McGuffin Good points. Perhaps they could balance it by making the fire burn hotter in a stove and thus plow through fuel faster? Cook things quicker?

The real benefit with a stove is you can actually control the oxygen levels. As such you can have a longer burn with a more consistent heat. A good stove can keep embers going for a long time to warm a home by restricting air flow to the minimum required.

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7 hours ago, cekivi said:

The real benefit with a stove is you can actually control the oxygen levels. As such you can have a longer burn with a more consistent heat. A good stove can keep embers going for a long time to warm a home by restricting air flow to the minimum required.

right, when I had a wood stove I could load it up just right, leave and come back at the end of the day and the embers would still light the next fire and the house stayed a reasonable temperature.  Ditto for the overnight.  Or I could heat the house up to sauna levels! :)

 

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That could be a cool mechanic in and of itself. Allow the player to trade off fuel use (type, speed of burn) with factors like cooking/snow melting time, full throttle to cure some hypothermia, or steady efficient warmth for fishing or working nearby. A simple simulated airflow lever with "L, M or H" would help. Although I don't think fire temp has an impact on cooking times at this point (perhaps someone can verify?), which may be a limitation. Either way it seems like the player should be rewarded for finding and using a stove as opposed to the infinitely more convenient "pile of sticks fire" wherever you want.

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I have never found cooking time to be dependent on the fire's "feel's like" temperature. It still takes 30 minutes to melt and boil 1L of water over a 1C stick fire or a 200C forge.

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I specifically remember Ralph explaining in what i believe to be the deep forest update that they made outdoor fires burn longer to encourage players to be outdoors more. Using stoves is actually the least efficient way to cook and melt water. 

As for low starting chance, try starting the fire out of a windy spot too. I think that can affect things.

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Since we're on the topic of stoves vs outdoor fires, I discovered the hard way that wolves aren't particularly put off by stove fires.  The broken cabin in ML's Deadfall Area is ...not a great place to take shelter from wolves, even if you get a roaring fire going in that thing.

Of course, this could also be a factor of positioning - the wall the stove is against means that the player is necessarily on the wolf side of the blaze.  But I can usually cook with impunity around an outdoor fire, even as the same wolf growls up and yips away over and over again.

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@ArmagedDan Wow, the wolf attacked you in the deadfall cabin? I probably would have wet myself, as I had assumed that it was impossible to be attacked while actively tending a fire!

@MarrowStone I've been making regular use of the ice fishing hut stoves, which I believe are just as efficient as an outdoor fire on the ground. It seems to me like one of the philosophies behind the game is "have a plan, but prepare for the unexpected". Encouraging players to make decisions/trade-offs with respect to fire cooking location, tools, fuel, etc. seems to fit into that philosophy. One could imagine a hierarchy of fire starting vessels:

  • Stove: longer burning due to control of airflow, protected from wind, potential to get very hot when wide open (but not as hot as the Forge) at the expense of fuel, or burn very slow (and relatively cool) when set to low airflow, maybe preserves embers for a prolonged period of time? dissipates heat more efficiently resulting in a bonus to "feels like"?
  • Pile: no control of airflow (wide open all the time?), not protected from wind, medium heat
  • Fire barrels: poor airflow, no control over airflow, protected from wind.
  • Forge: hottest, guzzles fuel, protected from wind

You could then have an "outdoor vs indoor" modifier which adjusts the burn duration net of the vessel factors, making the outdoor pile competitive versus a stove in spite of its inherent drawbacks. This would force players to consider making a run across the lake from the Camp Office to the nearest ice fishing hut laden with raw meat, or simply light a fire on the Camp Office doorstep, or most conveniently/safely/inefficiently use the stove inside.

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@Crocket ,

I agree with your proposal for tradeoffs etc, just was confirming in the current state, fires outdoors use fuel slower. I dont use the fishing cabins much, but maybe they also fall under the category of "outdoor fire " and get a boost too?

The devs are trying in many ways to keep players active outside. When more efficiency is paired along with fighting cabin fever, all your cooking and boiling should be done outside. Choose a base wisely with a safe outdoor and wind blocked location for your fire, and you can even do it in blizzards.

 

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23 hours ago, MarrowStone said:

The devs are trying in many ways to keep players active outside. When more efficiency is paired along with fighting cabin fever, all your cooking and boiling should be done outside

This I said one of the areas that is too contrived for me.   I will spend weeks living in Pleasant Valley homestead, but foregoing the nice indoor stove and cook outdoors at the risk weather and being attacked by wolves (which has occurred a number of times, and even and once by a bear), to keep the risk of cabin fever down.  Nobody in their right mind would do that.   Cabin fever is about isolation, not being indoors specifically. That game mechanic needs to go away.  I'm all for adding incentives to stay outside, but maybe they should focus on doing things to encourage staying outside, not discouraging being inside   

 

 

 

 

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3 hours ago, quarter said:

This I said one of the areas that is too contrived for me.   I will spend weeks living in Pleasant Valley homestead, but foregoing the nice indoor stove and cook outdoors at the risk weather and being attacked by wolves (which has occurred a number of times, and even and once by a bear), to keep the risk of cabin fever down.  Nobody in their right mind would do that.   Cabin fever is about isolation, not being indoors specifically. That game mechanic needs to go away.  I'm all for adding incentives to stay outside, but maybe they should focus on doing things to encourage staying outside, not discouraging being inside   

 

 

 

 

I agree, nobody would actually do that, but its the games current state.

I believe cabin fever should be caused by inactivity not how long youre indoors, the counter should only tick when youre not doing tasks like cooking, repairing, crafting etc. 

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On 4/10/2017 at 5:59 AM, Crocket said:

@ArmagedDan@MarrowStone Wow, the wolf attacked you in the deadfall cabin? I probably would have wet myself, as I had assumed that it was impossible to be attacked while actively tending a fire!

 

Two, in fact, about an hour apart while I was crouched in there trying to warm up by the fire.  I barely survived the night and left as soon as my condition was over 10, only daring to sleep there because I had driven off both local wolves. 

If I thought the first one was a fluke, the second one put that notion to rest - it was clear that eventually every wolf in the area was gonna wander past the Mackenzie Buffet, open 24 hours, now with cozy indoor heating!

Edited by ArmagedDan
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6 hours ago, cekivi said:

@ArmagedDan: Did you try taking any brands from the fire when the wolves came by?

Didn't occur to me, because I was expecting the fire itself to do the trick - and it happened kinda fast.  :\

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On 4/12/2017 at 1:18 PM, ArmagedDan said:

 - it was clear that eventually every wolf in the area was gonna wander past the Mackenzie Buffet, open 24 hours, now with cozy indoor heating!

:D

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On Wednesday, April 12, 2017 at 1:18 PM, ArmagedDan said:

Two, in fact, about an hour apart while I was crouched in there trying to warm up by the fire.  I barely survived the night and left as soon as my condition was over 10, only daring to sleep there because I had driven off both local wolves. 

If I thought the first one was a fluke, the second one put that notion to rest - it was clear that eventually every wolf in the area was gonna wander past the Mackenzie Buffet, open 24 hours, now with cozy indoor heating!

Are you sure the first one didn't flee and come back within an hour? I learned the hard way with a bear that as soon as you are mauled, pick up anything you may have dropped and start backin up, backin up, backin up, backin up while you treat your wounds, because after he takes 20 paces away he's turning around and taking 20 paces back....and if you are still in the same place as before, you are gettin mauled again I tellz ya....

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5 hours ago, JoE Smash said:

Are you sure the first one didn't flee and come back within an hour? I learned the hard way with a bear that as soon as you are mauled, pick up anything you may have dropped and start backin up, backin up, backin up, backin up while you treat your wounds, because after he takes 20 paces away he's turning around and taking 20 paces back....and if you are still in the same place as before, you are gettin mauled again I tellz ya....

While that's true, in this case I had previously seen two around, and later harvested two bodies - so this was a lunch rush and not a single repeat customer.  I mainly got hit twice because I was still in denial that they'd come into the broken half-house while a fire was going in that corner stove.

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4 minutes ago, ArmagedDan said:

While that's true, in this case I had previously seen two around, and later harvested two bodies - so this was a lunch rush and not a single repeat customer.  I mainly got hit twice because I was still in denial that they'd come into the broken half-house while a fire was going in that corner stove.

Ouch...

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