Docterrok

How much revenue has Hinterland studios taken in?

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Most likely a crap ton given how many purchases of TLD have been made . But then again idk about their employees , taxes and stuff like that they got to pay . 

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according to this 2015 article:

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2015-01-20-the-long-dark-has-sold-250k-copies-in-early-access

tld has sold 250,000 copies with the price of $20. granted some were sold at half price durring steam sale but then again they have also sold more since 2015.

so my rough estimate is: 250000*20= 5 million USD if not more gross sales.

remember that they would also have to cover expenses and such so there is no way of knowing if they are even making net income. they could very well be in debt and we would not know it.

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The gross sales is a lot more though. According to SteamDB, TLD has 933,376 owners on steam alone. Obviously not everyone bought it at $20 as it has been on sale multiple times. Then there's GOG and Xbox too. 

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It's good to be able to put your heart into something and also be financially successful. :)

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I don't think this project has ever been for want of money (originally being fully bankrolled by a Canadian media loan). The only reason it had a Kickstarter campaign was because they couldn't wait until release to have fans (they have said).  Then Early-Release happened.

Now knee-deep in both fans and funds, there are no capitalistic impulses left to actually push them to finish.  Until all their fans leave...

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18 hours ago, selfless said:

Now knee-deep in both fans and funds, there are no capitalistic impulses left to actually push them to finish.

In my experience, capitalistic pressures usually result in unfinished products that are rushed to market to meet a deadline. Software especially so; I've seen so many games ruined by fixed launch deadlines. So many. :-(

These guys are living the dream. I'd love to have the financial security to pursue my creative ideas. Having a fan-base on top of that, eagerly awaiting your work, must be doubly rewarding.

As for fans leaving; are they truly fans? Certainly not loyal ones, or patient ones. As with any customer-base, you look after the loyals. If you spend all your time chasing fickle customers, your loyal base will feel unloved and the core offering will erode; the project will fail. Look after that core and you have a solid base of loyal customers that will always be with you and they will grow over time, because those loyal customers will proselytise about your offering. The opposite is true of the impatient, demanding, infatuated fan in danger of abandoning the brand - they are more likely to become brand-detractors; they have no loyalty and can turn negative if they don't get what they want. They expect the brand to become what they want of it, whereas the true fan loves what the brand is and accepts it as such.

Sorry, I'm going off on one. The company I work for has recently come to this realisation after a good many years in the wilderness. It's finally realised that you can't please everyone and a period of consolidation is sometimes required in order to grow.

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40 minutes ago, Dug said:

As for fans leaving; are they truly fans? Certainly not loyal ones, or patient ones. As with any customer-base, you look after the loyals. If you spend all your time chasing fickle customers, your loyal base will feel unloved and the core offering will erode; the project will fail. Look after that core and you have a solid base of loyal customers that will always be with you and they will grow over time, because those loyal customers will proselytise about your offering. The opposite is true of the impatient, demanding, infatuated fan in danger of abandoning the brand - they are more likely to become brand-detractors; they have no loyalty and can turn negative if they don't get what they want. They expect the brand to become what they want of it, whereas the true fan loves what the brand is and accepts it as such.

Very well stated!

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You seem to be confused on what makes fandom.  It is personal to the individual fans and it is certainly not zealotry; it is fickle.  Maybe you want "groupies"? When a fan stops getting enjoyment out of an experience, they may complain at first but then they quickly become ex-fans.  There is no agency granted; the fans are always in control of deciding what makes them fans.

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Big salaries but in the last podcast he said they've reinvested everything in the game which seems possible. But big salaries :)

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On 4/5/2017 at 11:34 PM, Dug said:

As for fans leaving; are they truly fans? Certainly not loyal ones, or patient ones.

And fans come back. I paid into the Kickstarter because I love the concept and have dipped into the game on and off since it was first available. But it's only the combination of a decent gaming pc and the last update that it has it really gripping me. And TBH I consider I've had value for money with the game as is. Story mode is just a huge bonus.

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On 4/18/2017 at 3:13 AM, andrew_robinson said:

And TBH I consider I've had value for money with the game as is. Story mode is just a huge bonus.

+1

On 4/3/2017 at 6:59 PM, Docterrok said:

How much revenue has Hinterland studios taken in?

They'll have more of mine when the next episodes get released.  I purposely buy most games on sale only.  I'll gladly pay full price for Hinterland products.

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270147310_unitssold.png.b8e4a56ede839ddfa6f928dc9d9ff739.png

 

3.3 millions units * approx 20 cad (median including sales) = 660 000 00 CAD millions ? Not so much tough if you take into account that they need to maintain this game and pay workers + rent + taxes + internett + hardware.  

The sales shows us that this is a good quality game that gets a good reputation. 

Edited by Yavind

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Yavind,

Your estimate of an income of 20 CAD per game with total income of '660 000 00  CAD millions' seems unrealistically high.  (Although I'm not sure how much you mean by "660 000 00 CAD millions " .)

I bought my TLD through Steam when it was offer, and paid something like £5.95.  From that Steam will have taken their cut, so Hinterland could not have received much. 

I regard my £5.95 as extremely good value for the considerable number of hours enjoyment I have had from the game, so I wouldn't begrudge Hinterland make a good profit from it.  

 

 

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Let's start by assuming the 3.3 million is our baseline.

Let's then assume $20 CAD is maximum price paid per game copy sold.

Let's then guess that two thirds of the sales are when the game goes on sale.

Let's round the sale prices out to be half price average.

So 2.2 million sold at $10 CAD plus 1.1 million at $20 CAD is $44 million CAD.

Let's take 10% away for sales taxes, 30% for the cut for the online distributors, and 10% for miscellaneous expenses related to the game's sales such as advertising.

From that remaining $22 million CAD, divided out since 2012, we have a bit over 3 million CAD per year.

Take away a third of those profits for rent, outgoings, licensing fees, loan interest and other business expenses.

Put a quarter of the remaining $2 million CAD profits per year into savings, since sales will inevitably fail to cover expenses sooner or later.

From that $1.5 million CAD per year, divide that among 25 Hinterland staff.

The mean annual wage would equal $60,000 CAD per year.

For reference, programmers in Canada make $52,000 CAD per year on average, though this varies depending on experience.

Finally, note this is all wild-ass guess-work based on assumptions made by someone who doesn't have intimate knowledge of the games industry.

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Seems to me that it's bad form to speculate on and invite judgement about an independent studio's financials... especially on their own forum.  ¬¬ 
 

:coffee::fire:

Edited by ManicManiac
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Hopefully people here can keep it classy, and given that this one's been around since 2017 without being locked I'll take it as tentative proof it's not a verboten topic.

Otherwise, my own conclusion from the figures we've seen show that Hinterland deserve well-earned praise for making a commercially viable game. I hope they inspire more budding developers to take the leap and make their own vision come to life, seeing that it can produce a quality piece of art as well as earn a living wage.

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On 10/16/2019 at 12:54 PM, peteloud said:

 

Yavind,

Your estimate of an income of 20 CAD per game with total income of '660 000 00  CAD millions' seems unrealistically high.  (Although I'm not sure how much you mean by "660 000 00 CAD millions " .)

I bought my TLD through Steam when it was offer, and paid something like £5.95.  From that Steam will have taken their cut, so Hinterland could not have received much. 

I regard my £5.95 as extremely good value for the considerable number of hours enjoyment I have had from the game, so I wouldn't begrudge Hinterland make a good profit from it.  

 

 

I think I meant 66 millions. :D

 

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On 4/5/2017 at 7:34 AM, Dug said:

As for fans leaving; are they truly fans?

Just to pipe in...

I believe you can still be a fan and still be dissatisfied with things. Like for instance I love the Sims Games, I have been playing since the first one ever came out, but even so I am still not fully happy with The Sims 4. Even though I am not happy with The Sims 4 I would still have to consider myself a fan of it, and the series as a whole.

As pertaining to The Long Dark I also consider myself a fan of this Game, but even so there was a time before this recent Update where I was beginning to be disenchanted with it (mainly due to the long wait on Episode 3).

EDIT: I just realized this post in particular was from 2017... oh well I believe it still applies... 

Edited by kristaok

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