Should TLD go full zombie survival?

[Pillock]

3 hours ago, dbldrew said:

Ultimately I think its just in the mindset of the player. TLD is being billed as a wilderness survival game that does NOT have zombies. So when they throw in zombie wolves it makes for bad game play and just irritation for the player that wanted a wilderness survival game.

Now if they just call it a zombie survival (because that is what it really is at this point) then the “zombie wolves” fit perfectly into that style of game play. It just make it less irritating to the player, “zombie wolves” are not a huge game flaw in a zombie game, like it is in a non zombie game...

As I said before I hope it doesn’t go full zombie.. but the devs need to decide what direction they want to go with the game and commit to it..

personally to make the game harder they need to make food and hunting a much more intricate part of the game. Make more hunting options, make more birch/maple available and maybe randomly spawn all through the map (that way you have to actually explore the whole map rather then just a few hot spots once you learn the map).

Having wolves and bears fighting you over a kill would make the wolves and bear a logical part of the game.

I don't think it is by design that the wolves behave like "zombies", as you put it. Hinterland haven't looked at zombie games and then taken that as inspiration for the wolves' behaviour in TLD. Saying that "TLD wolves are a bit like differently-skinned zombies, and therefore they might as well actually add undead corpses to the game as enemies too", is a bit like saying, "Having bows and arrows is just the same as playing as an elf in a fantasy game, so they might as well add orcs and wizards and cave trolls and magic spells as well." It's a very strange bit of logic.

The wolf AI has got nothing to do with design choices about zombies, and by all accounts it never will have. I agree that the wolf AI (and other animal AI) could do with some work, and that would make the game better. TLD wolves look like real wolves (ish) and are supposed to be identifiable to the player as a real animal - so their behaviour needs to have some relation with that of real wolves, whatever the invented effects of 'The Event' are, otherwise it breaks that connection with the player's perception of the world they've been put into. In the same way, deer in the game need to behave recognisably like real deer - and the bears and the rabbits and whatever other animals are added in future. The wolves, more noticeably than the other animals presently in the game, don't behave like their real-world counterparts: they behave more like game-enemies who guard key areas of the map containing desirable 'pickups'. That might well be a reasonable gameplay design feature, but the problem with it is that the player can see straight through it for what it really is - and that breaks immersion. They will always be game-enemies, really (just like zombies are in other games), but I think they need to be disguised a bit more! Everyone knows that real wolves are pack animals; TLD wolves aren't, at least not in the way they attack and hunt. And I think pack-hunting behaviour is the most obvious thing that would improve the player's connection with them as believable wolves, rather than just as "enemies" (or zombies or aliens or mutants or monsters, or whatever form they take in other games).

But at the end of the day, it's an AI issue; I don't think it's particularly useful to suggest including zombies into the game, any more than it's useful to suggest including dragons, or teleportation machines or laser guns.

[Jolan]

On 1/18/2017 at 8:14 PM, ArmagedDan said:

When I was introduced to the game by a friend excitedly telling me about it, the bulk of the praise was for the atmosphere, worded like this:  "It FEELS like there are going to be zombies at any moment, but they never appear".  He was right.  That cautious, serene, unsettling feel, a cosine-wave of threat rising and receding, had a definite horror game vibe.  But the fact that it doesn't drop into the currently exhausted zombie genre is a net positive; it's bitter and lonely and dangerous while being grounded closer to the real world.

 

I still maintain, however, that the best Halloween event suckerpunch they could pull would be to quietly put monsters into the game during the next Four Days of Night.  Some of us have had years of buildup leading to THAT shock.  XD

Just think of all the dead guys we're sharing quarters with.  Still gives me the creeps. 

[Meathim]

Registered just to say "noooooooooooooooooo!!!!!".

About wolfs: met the first one today, and they apparently are the zombies in this game, which I found dissapointing (only played for about 5h so far). I'm seriously considering writing proper feedback, and lots of it, as I absolutely love the game so far. The potential is massive, but the path is narrow (as are all the good paths, except for the ones involving fart jokes).

[dbldrew]

On 1/30/2017 at 1:21 PM, Pillock said:

I don't think it is by design that the wolves behave like "zombies", as you put it. Hinterland haven't looked at zombie games and then taken that as inspiration for the wolves' behaviour in TLD. Saying that "TLD wolves are a bit like differently-skinned zombies, and therefore they might as well actually add undead corpses to the game as enemies too", is a bit like saying, "Having bows and arrows is just the same as playing as an elf in a fantasy game, so they might as well add orcs and wizards and cave trolls and magic spells as well." It's a very strange bit of logic.

The wolf AI has got nothing to do with design choices about zombies, and by all accounts it never will have. I agree that the wolf AI (and other animal AI) could do with some work, and that would make the game better. TLD wolves look like real wolves (ish) and are supposed to be identifiable to the player as a real animal - so their behaviour needs to have some relation with that of real wolves, whatever the invented effects of 'The Event' are, otherwise it breaks that connection with the player's perception of the world they've been put into. In the same way, deer in the game need to behave recognisably like real deer - and the bears and the rabbits and whatever other animals are added in future. The wolves, more noticeably than the other animals presently in the game, don't behave like their real-world counterparts: they behave more like game-enemies who guard key areas of the map containing desirable 'pickups'. That might well be a reasonable gameplay design feature, but the problem with it is that the player can see straight through it for what it really is - and that breaks immersion. They will always be game-enemies, really (just like zombies are in other games), but I think they need to be disguised a bit more! Everyone knows that real wolves are pack animals; TLD wolves aren't, at least not in the way they attack and hunt. And I think pack-hunting behaviour is the most obvious thing that would improve the player's connection with them as believable wolves, rather than just as "enemies" (or zombies or aliens or mutants or monsters, or whatever form they take in other games).

But at the end of the day, it's an AI issue; I don't think it's particularly useful to suggest including zombies into the game, any more than it's useful to suggest including dragons, or teleportation machines or laser guns.

i agree that the wolves being "zombies" is not an intentional design choice, but the end result is the same.. a pseudo zombie game that brags that it is not a zombie game...

Hope they get the game back to a survival game at some point.. 

[Robbie Rotten]

ok....stop. why do i like this game, Theres no stupid over used zombie wolf crap. i love this game because its like your in the woods (with over aggressive wolfs and having a reason for that) and whats that a wolf that likes human flesh well better run inside. i don't want to sound mean but don't take the games charm and make me through it in the over used generic bland zombie pile.

[writeright1]

On 1/18/2017 at 8:14 PM, ArmagedDan said:

I still maintain, however, that the best Halloween event suckerpunch they could pull would be to quietly put monsters into the game during the next Four Days of Night.  Some of us have had years of buildup leading to THAT shock.  XD

I'd love for something strange to be lurking in the darkness over that time, but something fitting the tone of the game.  Stalked by bigfoot or you stumble across the lair of a wendigo.

Now that the world of man has been brought to its knees, the things that have lurked in the shadows no longer need to fear the human race.

"We shall see that at which dogs howl in the dark, and that at which cats prick up their ears after midnight."  H.P. Lovecraft.

I'm sure once Workshop support is added we'll have all the horror mods we could ever desire.