Ruruwawa

Unexpected benefit of the new clothing system

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At least, I didn't expect it: I feel more connected to my character.

Part of it is the paper doll, seeing those clothes.   But a big part is simply the variety.  In each of my new sandboxes my character is wearing pretty different clothing, because of game mode (I have one of each difficulty), places lived and traveled, lucky finds.  Instead of ending up at the same generic spot on every playthrough (fur clothes + wool undies + toque).  I like it!  

Edited by Ruruwawa
typo
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Yup - the reason is because you place much more time and effort into the decisions you make in comparing, equipping and maintaining your gear.
This is akin to the RPG system of donning armor.

I was iffy at first about having more gear to deal with but I grew fond of it quickly.

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I also like it, but since I mostly play the girl, the picture of Awesome Astrid in my head gets slowly replaced by a 14 year old boy which is the female paperdoll -.- that really needs fixing.

@junglegreen: nobody has yet found items that belong to those slots, they surely will get implemented later 

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2 hours ago, junglegreen said:

can anyone explain what the 2 accessories are that are shown in the new clothing module

I have found an ear muff type accessory (cant remember exactly what it's called) when playing the Test Branch. Not found any more though.

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I found earmuff once in test branch. But I harvested it because the warmth/weight ratio was extremely low, even after repairing.

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Are the insulated boots better than the deerskin boots in this update or is it just me?  I think the insulated boots have a warmth of almost 3, windproof of almost 3, and they are 50% waterproof.  I haven't made the boots yet because the work bench says they have 2.5 warmth and 2 windproof.  Why go to all the trouble of crafting clothes if the found ones are better.  I started this voyager run on Mystery lake and my insulated boots were in the dam.

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2 hours ago, fearofspam said:

Are the insulated boots better than the deerskin boots in this update or is it just me?  I think the insulated boots have a warmth of almost 3, windproof of almost 3, and they are 50% waterproof.  I haven't made the boots yet because the work bench says they have 2.5 warmth and 2 windproof.  Why go to all the trouble of crafting clothes if the found ones are better.  I started this voyager run on Mystery lake and my insulated boots were in the dam.

There are boots everywhere I've found. I'm running a Stalker sandbox and had the luxury of being able to harvest about 4 pairs of Heavy Boots and a pair of Sneakers.
I have too much Cured Leather already and I'm on day 15.

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2 hours ago, fearofspam said:

Are the insulated boots better than the deerskin boots in this update or is it just me?  I think the insulated boots have a warmth of almost 3, windproof of almost 3, and they are 50% waterproof.  I haven't made the boots yet because the work bench says they have 2.5 warmth and 2 windproof.  Why go to all the trouble of crafting clothes if the found ones are better.  I started this voyager run on Mystery lake and my insulated boots were in the dam.

If it were so, I would like it. My feeling is that modern-day industry-made insulated boots should be superior to self-made leather boots when it comes to survival in a Winter wonderland. So if one finds them in the game, they are a lucky find and not redundant. Hitherto, after making the deerskin boots all other boots were redundant. Now we could have a situation where we may find a pair of high-value items which won't last forever, but are better than self-made equipment. So we might keep and treasure them for difficult expeditions, because we know we can only repair them so many times (or, maybe, not at all).

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4 hours ago, fearofspam said:

Are the insulated boots better than the deerskin boots in this update or is it just me?  I think the insulated boots have a warmth of almost 3, windproof of almost 3, and they are 50% waterproof.  I haven't made the boots yet because the work bench says they have 2.5 warmth and 2 windproof.  Why go to all the trouble of crafting clothes if the found ones are better.  I started this voyager run on Mystery lake and my insulated boots were in the dam.

There are tradeoffs.  The insulted boots have a 12% movement penalty.  They also seem to wear out very fast.  Since they require 2 cured leather per repair, it's going to be a chore to keep these in good condition.  I've set mine aside for wet weather.

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And they are heavier! Since the update I find myself having a hard time to manage weight, I guess everyone is having similar problems so the weight of the stuff has become way more relevant now. 

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2 hours ago, Ruruwawa said:

There are tradeoffs.  The insulted boots have a 12% movement penalty.  They also seem to wear out very fast.  Since they require 2 cured leather per repair, it's going to be a chore to keep these in good condition.  I've set mine aside for wet weather.

And this is what I love about the new system. It's definitely a lot more like an RPG system where we decide to have different sets of gear for different situations. This even more makes me want to see different, equippable backpacks, so we can set up packs holding the clothes and equipment we want for different situations.

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2 hours ago, SteelFire said:

And this is what I love about the new system. It's definitely a lot more like an RPG system where we decide to have different sets of gear for different situations. This even more makes me want to see different, equippable backpacks, so we can set up packs holding the clothes and equipment we want for different situations.

Or a sled. I've mostly noticed the weight penalty when trying to travel to new maps. Within an area hunting or maintaining a trap line the encumbrance helps get me tired enough so I can sleep through the entire night. Note that my most recent game is Voyager though so on modes where getting exhausted is to be avoided I may change my mind ;)

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Not going to get into it much, but at least on Interloper, all the clothes got a global nerf except 1-2 items and basically you can either drag around 20kg of clothes to get the same protection as you got prepatch with only 8.5kg, or you can travel light and only wear enough clothes to avoid frostbite. The problem is the latter is always better late in the game when world temps are the minimum, since even the warmest clothes aren't anywhere near enough at that point to avoid freezing anyways.

For the record, I don't know how much +temp you can get from the warmest clothing on Stalker (maybe it's way more now) and below, but here are the Interloper values:

Pre Patch: 8.65 KG weight, +23/+16 temp/windchill

Post Patch: 19.5 KG weight (beyond absurd as you need to carry a few other things too even if travelling light), +26.5/+10.5 (and losing the windchill is a big deal and mostly offsets the raw temp gain since winds are 14-16C)

Note this is at 100% for all clothes. So in reality, if it's -30C out (this is during the warmest parts of the day on the warm maps in day 50+ Interloper, it's -45C in the morning even without windchill), since your clothes are going to be around 80-90% condition on average, you are still going to be sitting at -10C feels like at best.

I might have added some of that wrong, but it should be about right.

As for protection from animals, well basically I care more about clothing being ripped then the condition damage (at low condition you don't mess with wolves, at high condition, losing a few % less doesn't matter anyways).

And the Wolfskin Coat is beyond worthless atm and I don't think I will ever craft it again. Kind of wish it was a LITTLE better. Honestly I feel like all the crafted clothing could be a little better as it was all nerfed extremely hard, even accounting for the ability to layer. While it is more realistic that manufactured clothes would be better then handmade ones, gameplay > realism, and gameplay wise it doesn't make sense to be able to randomly find better clothes on day 1 vs having to spend a lot of time gathering materials and a ton of time crafting to make something extremely weak. Also realism is a REALLY slippery slope with this game, as there are a ton of 'unrealistic things' in the game that are done for the sake of gameplay.

But like I said, I'm not going to get into this too much (I have a lot more to say about this topic, but it's kind of offtopic here).

TLDR: I don't think the new clothing system works as intended on Interloper: the 'tradeoffs' are never really worth it due to a few factors (can't get enough warmth to matter either way, which means condition is the real temperature meter, meaning lighter = always better).

Also doesn't really make sense for Interloper to have worse world temps (and much faster) and then ALSO have way worse clothing. Just two factors affecting the same thing for no reason and it contributes to the absurd sillyness of temperature in late game Interloper (like I said, your condition becomes your real temperature bar). To be fair, if you were to change temps to be more reasonable, you would HAVE to adjust difficulty in other areas on Interloper (like banning starving please thanks). Right now all the difficulty if you don't set rules for yourself like no starving and slower condition regain is in temperature in Interloper and it feels very awkward and one dimensional; it should be spread out more into stuff like calorie acquisition, harder hunting/gathering firewood, ect, but that is a massive other topic that would be pages and pages long so I'll just stop.

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1 hour ago, Troxism said:

Not going to get into it much, but at least on Interloper, all the clothes got a global nerf except 1-2 items and basically you can either drag around 20kg of clothes to get the same protection as you got prepatch with only 8.5kg, or you can travel light and only wear enough clothes to avoid frostbite. The problem is the latter is always better late in the game when world temps are the minimum, since even the warmest clothes aren't anywhere near enough at that point to avoid freezing anyways.

TLDR: I don't think the new clothing system works as intended on Interloper: the 'tradeoffs' are never really worth it due to a few factors (can't get enough warmth to matter either way, which means condition is the real temperature meter, meaning lighter = always better).

Well, I definitely need to test this matter more thoroughly before I can make a final statement about the topic, but based on my Interloper experiences so far I can only confirm your conclusion (light gear = better by default) for TWM and PV which are the two coldest maps.

In ML and FM an extremely heavy maximum warmth clothing set is actually sufficient to keep my character above -2ºC (sometimes even above 0ºC) during most afternoons in a day 180 Interloper game. It's a matter of taste of course whether one wants to make all the numerous sacrifices (permanent overencumbrance, extremely limited sprinting and rope climbling capabilities, etc.) to get some non-freezing hours per day on Interloper, but I wouldn't call max. warmth an invalid clothing strategy per se. It kind of works for some of the maps and it definitely has huge advantages if you enjoy living in non-loading screen caves or other outdoor locations. ^^

But you're ofc. right, the price you need to pay for max. warmth is considerable atm and for many playstyles and maps on Interloper it's probably not worth it.

Edited by Scyzara
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Problem is you might hit -2C on a really warm day with no wind on ML/CH... If your clothes are at near 100%. Except keeping them that way is extremely wasteful. And if resource conservation isn't a concern, then it goes into 'well then you can basically do anything even on Interloper if you are only concerned with 100 days or so*'. -14 to -16C winds are common as I said, and that would put you easily at -6 to -10 even on an otherwise really warm day and that starts to get into the same problem. Anecdotal for sure, but I've been doing some living on ML in Interloper (mostly to confirm my theory that map is horrible for Interloper), and it feels like maybe 1/4 or even 1/5 days when it's not super cold or super windy or a blizzard during the warm hours of the day.

*For example, I'm pretty sure if you abuse starvation to the maximum (I know I say this a lot, but this mechanic NEEDS TO GO at least on Interloper) you could probably survive 100 days on Interloper on nothing but found food and cattails (ie no snaring, fishing, or hunting) with how many cattails there are these days across all maps. Point is if you are only looking at the short term you can do almost anything.

To be fair though you are right in that I slightly exaggerate as you can get above -10C sometimes (just kind of rarely). It's probably a lot closer to 'balanced' (maybe just 0.5-1 degrees on a 2-3 pieces of clothing) then I initially thought (mostly it just irks me how bad the crafted clothing is now overall). Another problem with the whole matter of temperature on Interloper is it breaks even more on PV/TWM. To some extent I feel like those maps's temperatures should normalize with the others as world temps drop (ie drop less then other maps), but to be fair that isn't a great solution either (as it just makes maps more similar which is also not ideal).

I will note that if you want to live in 'non indoor locations', Bearskin Bedroll is more then enough for the backs of caves ect, as they don't appear to suffer from world temperature decay (only the front parts of outdoor caves seem to). But that might not apply to every single cave (as they seem to be inconsistent from my limited testing). So I don't think clothing plays much of a role in that.

But again, not going in depth here and this is probably the wrong topic for that. Kind of just bringing things up without following through completely explaining the reasoning behind my statements. I don't mean to come off as massively argumentative about it, because like I said, I don't think there are super simple solutions to these issues that don't break other things, so honestly I would rather it stay the same then have some sloppy band-aid fix that doesn't consider other factors.

Edited by Troxism

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