Is there a way to remove the "invisible crouch" superpowers?

[Horst]

On 29.11.2016 at 1:00 AM, TWM said:

That doesn't sound very realistic, though. If you shoot a wolf, I'd expect others to flee and retreat, at least temporarily.

Well, the question is what scares a wolf. There is no way for an animal to make the connection that you are responsible for the outcome of a shot, so what would they run away from?
- If it was a bow, I highly doubt they would even run away, they possibly become aggressive as injuries to at least one of them make it impossible for the pack to leave the area as a whole, and they would probably attack anyone they might interpret as a danger
- If it was a gunshot, they might run away initially simply because of the sound - but then again, wolves are pack animals. There are about a million videos on the internet of dogs refusing to leave the side of a dead "friend", even in dangerous situations, and I think the same behaviour would apply here. If you fire and miss, they all run away and are gone...if you hit one, the others will return within a minute or less. And if I understand the lore correctly we are talking about starving animals that have not learned to fear man, or simply forgotten to do so via magnetic storm, so if they feel threatend they will try to run away as a pack, and if that is impossible, they will attack anything they don't know i.e. the player...

But I totally agree on the RPG-enemies - currently there are only two forms of behaviour: Attack, or run away. Reality would be confusion, not knowing if you are hunter or prey, so they would probably stalk and test by running up to you, biting your ankle and moving back, etc.

[mystifeid]

Quote

Personally, I don't think head shots should kill the animal at all (except maybe the rifle). Skulls are full of think, hard contoured bone. Likely your arrow would injure and possibly even blind the wolf but unless your shot was perfect it would probably bounce off leaving a terrified, wounded animal. I'd guess at that point it would panic and either run away or attack?

No chance of a stun/knockout allowing a coup de grace with a knife?

[cekivi]

2 hours ago, mystifeid said:

No chance of a stun/knockout allowing a coup de grace with a knife?

Maybe with wolves... I know second hand of a moose being shot in the head with a rifle that got knocked out... only to get back up again shortly thereafter. This was followed by the simple moral of "don't aim for the head".

[mystifeid]

Again +1 for the laughter.

[RCCross]

12 hours ago, cekivi said:

Maybe with wolves... I know second hand of a moose being shot in the head with a rifle that got knocked out... only to get back up again shortly thereafter. This was followed by the simple moral of "don't aim for the head".

I've learned that in the game Deer Hunter, after many head shots and no kills, I tried going for different parts, that's when I found out that aiming for the heart or the lungs granted instant kill.

could such instructions be actually written in the hunting books instead of a abstract progress bar? or maybe in the tutorial tips?

[Kyopaxa]

The other day I realized I forgot to add:

• Divide current wolf attack into several separated charge attacks with reduced health/injury impact. Attacks have a random length:
  • Just small bites to separate again quickly.
  • Long attacks where you move slowly as if the animal is holding you, allowing for several bites.
• Close combat proximity enables counterattacking with left click, using your knife or whatever hand weapon you have, aiming at the center of your screen. Attack speed and strength is affected by your stamina. Your attacks help you get separated from the wolf, allowing the wolf to consider attacking again or running away on the next seconds. You can also move backwards, increasing chances for the wolf to not attack again, or run away giving the back to the wolf, increasing the chances for it to charge and attack again (but also depends on its health).
• On each wolf charge attack, there is a chance for you to fall down reducing your chances to get separated from the wolf with your attacks. Your character always stands up as quick as possible whenever it gets separated from the wolf.
• Of course, like currently, aiming with a bow or a rifle when separated will lead for a quick charge (I'm not particularly happy with this behavior but I understand it would otherwise be too easy to aim and shoot).

This system would work great whenever Hinterland implements wolf pack behavior, since several wolves could be attacking at the same time from different angles, reducing your chances of survival.

This attack system could also be extrapolated to combats between animals, giving it more realism to the whole thing.

Implementing the click attack when in close combat range will also open other great possibilities where you can actually attack other animals, like deer or rabbits, if close enough. (Right now you currently can't and also feels broken).

 

[TWM]

22 hours ago, Horst said:

And if I understand the lore correctly we are talking about starving animals that have not learned to fear man

Well, that's one issue (which has been noted before): there are way too many deer and bunnies walking around for that to be realistic. Which is a problem mainly because it breaks immersion.

For the wolves to regard you as prey, they'd need to either a) really be hungry or b) regard you as an easy meal.

22 hours ago, Horst said:

Reality would be confusion, not knowing if you are hunter or prey, so they would probably stalk and test by running up to you, biting your ankle and moving back, etc.

Yep, that would be cool, being chased by wolves, nipping at your ankles; losing your footing etc. But the thing is: you wouldn't want that happening every time you encounter a wolf, and ideally, you'd want different sorts of encounters result in different outcomes, depending on how you behave and your stats.

What would be really cool is to have the sense that something is prowling you for a prolonged period of time; looking around, seeing nothing. Walking another fifty steps, hearing the wolves trying to get a good angle on you... that would be way more stressful than the occasional wolf charging you.

I've seen players walking headfirst into a pack of wolves, and just picking them off one by one with a bow and arrow. At Interloper mode, no less. At that point, the wolves are just not that scary anymore, because they don't offer much of a threat.

It's a tricky balance: you'd want the wolves to be dangerous enough where you fear an encounter because they could potentially tear you to shreds without them actually doing so every time you encounter them.

[mystifeid]

9 minutes ago, TWM said:

What would be really cool is to have the sense that something is prowling you for a prolonged period of time; looking around, seeing nothing. Walking another fifty steps, hearing the wolves trying to get a good angle on you... that would be way more stressful than the occasional wolf charging you.

That would be very cool.

[Horst]

53 minutes ago, TWM said:

For the wolves to regard you as prey, they'd need to either a) really be hungry or b) regard you as an easy meal.

 

If we asume those wolves have never encountered humans, or have forgotten it by the magic of a geomagnetic storm-thing, you would definetly be the easiest meal around...You are slower than anything else, if you sprint you can't do it very long, and most of the time you are already more or less in the process of freezing, starving and dying...

So technically you are easy prey. If you further read a bit about all kinds of animals that turn into man-eaters, they often start the behaviour after some sort of disaster left human bodies in the wild, and they started to feed on them - so once they know you are tasty, they will probably be quick to notice how weak you are...

 

 

1 hour ago, TWM said:

Yep, that would be cool, being chased by wolves, nipping at your ankles; losing your footing etc. But the thing is: you wouldn't want that happening every time you encounter a wolf, and ideally, you'd want different sorts of encounters result in different outcomes, depending on how you behave and your stats.

Well you probably wouldn't want that to happen every time, as well as I don't want to be attacked every single time a wolf sees me...but how every encounter plays out comes down to balancing, how often they charge and bite, if you can prevent it, how you can prevent it, if you can distract them, maybe scare them of, drop something, lead them to a body, or even close to a bear, etc.
I think most of all the general mechanics for group behaviour and persistance hunting would be a nice thing to have implemented, I wouldn't mind if the fine tuning came into the game a bit later...