Bow Crafting Skill Locked at Start

[cekivi]

So, bow crating is neither simple nor easy. It requires the right wood, proper shaping of the wood, correctly made arrows, properly attaching the string, etc. I would like to see bow crafting as a skill in the game that's locked at the start until you find a skill book or an NPC to teach you. Then as you experiment and start making bows your improving skill allows for crafting bow's with higher condition, durability and accuracy.

[miah999]

You watched the video didn't you? 

[Raf109]

Agree, and at the start, you have a lot of ammo, rifle and traps. You should be good without a bow at the beginning of the game.

[Pillock]

Agree to this. It could also be applied to forging metal tools and making animal-skin clothes, among others. Your character would probably be aware that it's possible to do these things, but they might well not have a clue about actually how to do it.

Is also like to see a woodland handbook type of research book, which would unlock the knowledge for making antiseptic bandages from lichens, and which mushrooms and other plants you can safely make use of (other varieties, some useful, some useless some poisonous, could be introduced to the game). It could even go as far as to unlock knowledge about different tree types and their uses (ie. until you've read the book, you don't know a birch from a maple from a cedar, etc).

The research, skills and knowledge system is something the developers could really go to town with if the y choose to. 

 

[cekivi]

2 hours ago, miah999 said:

You watched the video didn't you? 

Yes. It was a good video even if it had no sound on my work laptop. Plus I tried making a bow once as a kid. It had the right shape... and that was about it!

[miah999]

2 hours ago, cekivi said:

Yes. It was a good video even if it had no sound on my work laptop. Plus I tried making a bow once as a kid. It had the right shape... and that was about it!

If you liked that, here's an entire YouTube channel I really recommend.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCAL3JXZSzSm8AlZyD3nQdBA/videos

[Ohbal]

I like this idea. Its more or less in line with my suggestion of greatly reducing what the player can do at start. Most things should be learn through books and practice, that would give the player a sense of progression through their survival time.

[miah999]

Does anyone think Long Dark should go full skill/tech tree?

With skills needing to be mastered before you can unlock others. This could also tie in with the "Hobby" system being discussed in another thread.

For example...

You need woodworking skill, leveled up through whittling - to unlock spear crafting, once that's leveled up - you unlock bow making, a book could unlock advanced bow making, or different types of arrows.

Some skills would be leveled up through practice, other through books. It can be a very deep mechanic if you want to work at it.

[Raf109]

2 hours ago, miah999 said:

Does anyone think Long Dark should go full skill/tech tree?

 

Nope, we just need a couple of things that should be blocked at the beginning of the game. Nothing too complicated.

[Ohbal]

I like the idea of the tech tree, but I wouldn't make it grind-based though. However, I can't help thinking that if you over-comlicate it as Raf109 said, the game will lose part of its taste. 

[sarudak]

IMO I think a skill tree is not a good idea. I much prefer the idea of having many of the abilities gated by books and you never know the order you'll find them in your run so each run will have different challenges vs everyone figuring out the optimal skill path and going with that.

[cekivi]

I've seen mentioned in other posts on skills descriptions of what is basically a hybrid system. Doing the task still levels it up (grinding) but unique special abilities require learning from an NPC or skill book.

For instance, you get better ice fishing the more you fish. But if you found a book on crafting advanced lures (a hook, scrap metal, and a feather) then you could make more effective fishing gear.

[TSmith]

I suggested something similar to this on the Steam forums and it was wrote off from the players ( not the Devs) as non sense

My suggestion was not to lock the current system, but for there to be a " few" scattered saplings that would make better, more powerful bows and arrow shafts. Saplings which took longer to cure and much longer to craft.

Now, with the skill system being implemented, this could really be a viable option ( If and when bow skills are introduced, which i have no doubt there will be) This could be easily placed in the game. A player might find one of these saplings right off the bat, but could not do anything with it till he/or she reached a certain skill level with the current bow.

And if a using the forge is ever made a skill perhaps we could get a better arrowhead that could be only used on these arrows? and crafted only after the they reached a certain skill level with the forge.

[continuity]

I'm in favour of a crafting skill based system, where the items you create (like bow and arrows) improve in effectiveness and durability as your skill increases.

Speaking of bow making videos, I watched this ray mears episode again a few weeks ago, shows making a english bow (yew) using just stone age tools.

 

 

[elloco999]

I think locking bow crafting at start is a good idea. But if the first bows you make are of poor condition/ quality and they get better by making them, should there not also be more sapplings to compensate?

[miah999]

2 minutes ago, elloco999 said:

I think locking bow crafting at start is a good idea. But if the first bows you make are of poor condition/ quality and they get better by making them, should there not also be more sapplings to compensate?

That would make sense, but if we do get seasonal transitions, then we'd just have to wait for new ones to grow.

[Dirmagnos]

All critical recipes should be unlocked from getgo, including bow. More advanced ones, for items that are not crucial for survival, should be learnable, from either books or npcs(if they would be willing to part with that knowledge). Like knowing how to make basic bow from getgo, from any junk that player can find, and later learnign how to make composite bow, for example. Putting in more materials and time, but potentially(not guaranteed) making item of superior quality.

Skills should affect quality of production of those items. Making them more durable, more accurate, less prone to breaking, adding special features and reducing amount of resources used.

[cekivi]

5 hours ago, Dirmagnos said:

All critical recipes should be unlocked from getgo, including bow. More advanced ones, for items that are not crucial for survival, should be learnable, from either books or npcs(if they would be willing to part with that knowledge). Like knowing how to make basic bow from getgo, from any junk that player can find, and later learnign how to make composite bow, for example. Putting in more materials and time, but potentially(not guaranteed) making item of superior quality.

Skills should affect quality of production of those items. Making them more durable, more accurate, less prone to breaking, adding special features and reducing amount of resources used.

I agree but certain tools (like a bow) require lots of skill to even make a rudimentary one that will fire. Since firearms are in the game having bow crafting locked behind a skill wall I think is still fair as you can still scavenge bows and use the rifle. As a compromise, how about a certain level of archery automatically unlocks bow crafting even without a skill book or NPC training?

[continuity]

49 minutes ago, cekivi said:

I agree but certain tools (like a bow) require lots of skill to even make a rudimentary one that will fire. Since firearms are in the game having bow crafting locked behind a skill wall I think is still fair as you can still scavenge bows and use the rifle. As a compromise, how about a certain level of archery automatically unlocks bow crafting even without a skill book or NPC training?

I don't think locking bow crafting behind a skill wall feels right to me, after all, anyone can attempt to make a bow, but you can pretty much guarantee your first bow will be terrible unless you get a lot of guidance.  So I say let anyone craft a bow, but at the lowest skill level have the bow be rubbish, weak draw power and breaks very quickly.  Then you could improve your skill each time you make a new bow, or you would wait to find a book to buff your skill somewhat.

I know its more complex, but i'd rather most skills worked that way, gives more progression to the game and also makes it less gamey... no one reads a book on bow crafting then makes the perfect bow on their first attempt, there is going to be a skill/experience curve in any crafting.

[cekivi]

1 hour ago, continuity said:

I know its more complex, but i'd rather most skills worked that way, gives more progression to the game and also makes it less gamey... no one reads a book on bow crafting then makes the perfect bow on their first attempt, there is going to be a skill/experience curve in any crafting.

I completely agree. I'm not saying you can make a good bow after reading a book. I'm arguing that making even a rudimentary bow without some guidance is unlikely to succeed.

But I can appreciate the counter argument that you should be able to waste resources practicing to "level up" to a point where you can make one that works.

[nicko]

also we can't make bows if not saplings are growing or available.

At present you get like two saps per map? why not add more and just make it harder ie longer time to craft a a good bow?

[Dirmagnos]

16 hours ago, cekivi said:

I agree but certain tools (like a bow) require lots of skill to even make a rudimentary one that will fire. Since firearms are in the game having bow crafting locked behind a skill wall I think is still fair as you can still scavenge bows and use the rifle. As a compromise, how about a certain level of archery automatically unlocks bow crafting even without a skill book or NPC training?

2 bad that millions of boys in the world are not aware of that and make fairly functional bows out of any junk they can find without any guidance.

[cekivi]

2 hours ago, Dirmagnos said:

2 bad that millions of boys in the world are not aware of that and make fairly functional bows out of any junk they can find without any guidance.

Sure. You can make something that looks like a bow from some junk and it will launch a projectile. I just have doubts that it would have the power and accuracy needed to take down a deer.

[Muk_Pile]

18 hours ago, continuity said:

I don't think locking bow crafting behind a skill wall feels right to me, after all, anyone can attempt to make a bow, but you can pretty much guarantee your first bow will be terrible unless you get a lot of guidance.  So I say let anyone craft a bow, but at the lowest skill level have the bow be rubbish, weak draw power and breaks very quickly.  Then you could improve your skill each time you make a new bow, or you would wait to find a book to buff your skill somewhat.

I agree that bow crafting shouldn't be locked off at the beginning of the game until you happen to stumble across a book conveniently covers the topics of bow design and construction.  I feel that bow crafting, as well as most aspects of archery within the game, could be subject to a single skill category that would level up whenever you perform an archery related activity (e.g. shooting arrows, crafting bows and arrows, research books about archery).  In fact, here's how I would imagine such a progression system would look like:

• Level 1 (Base Level)
  • Bows, arrow shafts, and arrows take twice as long to craft as they currently do now (10 hours, 1 hour, and 3 hours, respectively)
  • Crafted bows and arrows only start out with 60% condition
  • Range reduced to 60% of what it currently is now
  • Arrows are inaccurate and will deviate by 3 degrees in their trajectories
  • Bows have low draw power, so arrows can only one-shot kill rabbits and cannot pierce skulls for head-shot kills
• Level 2 (Novice Level)
  • Crafting times reduced by 25% (8.75 hours, 53 minutes, and 2.63 hours)
  • Crafted bows and arrows start out with 70% condition
  • Range increased to 70%
  • Arrow are slightly more accurate and will only deviate by 2 degrees
  • Bows have slight more draw power, so arrows can now pierce deer and wolf rib cages for heart-shot kills
• Level 3 (Advanced Level)
  • Crafting times reduced by 50% (7.5 hours, 45 minutes, and 2.25 hours)
  • Crafted bows and arrows start out with 80% condition
  • Range increased to 80%
  • Arrows are even more accurate and will only deviate by 1 degree
  • Bows are even more powerful, so arrows can now pierce deer and wolf skulls for head-shot kills, as well as pierce bear rib cages for heart-shot kills
• Level 4 (Expert Level)
  • Crafting times reduced by 75% (6.25 hours, 38 minutes, and 1.88 hours)
  • Crafted bows and arrows start out with 90% condition
  • Range increased to 90%
  • Arrows are truly accurate and will not deviate in their trajectories
  • Reloading and drawing times reduced by 10% (i.e. 90% base time)
  • Arrows inflict larger wounds, increasing blood loss rates by 10%
  • Bows are powerful, so arrows can now pierce bear skulls for head-shot kills
• Level 5 (Master Level)
  • Crafting times reduced by 100% (5 hours, 30 minutes, and 1.5 hours)
  • Crafted bows and arrows start out with 100% condition
  • Range increased to 100%
  • Reloading and drawing times reduced by 20% (i.e. 80% base time)
  • Arrows inflict larger wounds, increasing blood loss rates by 20%
  • Arrows trajectories are 10% less effected by crosswinds
  • Improvised arrow heads can be crafted from bones (If such a game mechanic were to be implemented)

[Boston123]

5 hours ago, Dirmagnos said:

2 bad that millions of boys in the world are not aware of that and make fairly functional bows out of any junk they can find without any guidance.

"functional", in the sense that it will launch a vaguely arrow-shaped stick.

Propel an actual arrow with the distance, power and accuracy needed to actually kill an animal? Not likely. I'll need to see some proof. Arrow-making isn't a walk in the park, either, especially if you don't know what you are doing.

It took me around 5 failed bows to make my bow "right". That was with videos, a book specifically on primitive bow making, and "professional" guidance at my fingertips.

Bowmaking is an art.