suggestion Crafting riffle ammunition

[Wastelander]

1 minute ago, miah999 said:

Your best bet for obtaining lead is old batteries, fishing tackle, and very out dated plumbing (pre 1970). As for alternatives to lead any heavy metal can be used so long as it is softer than used in the guns barrel steel. The problem is most of the metals were talking about are either difficult to work with or radioactive.

How about gold from old jewelry?

Also, thank you for answering my questions, this is both helpful and incredibly interesting for me!

[miah999]

1 minute ago, Wastelander said:

How about gold from old jewelry?

Also, thank you for answering my questions, this is both helpful and incredibly interesting for me!

You could use gold, not sure of it's ballistics, not commonly used obviously. But not silver, it's usually too hard and won't take rifling so silver bullets are really inaccurate at range.

[Docterrok]

We're also not fighting werewolves...

[Wastelander]

2 minutes ago, miah999 said:

You could use gold, not sure of it's ballistics, not commonly used obviously. But not silver, it's usually too hard and won't take rifling so silver bullets are really inaccurate at range.

Well, with the current range of the rifle, ballistics shouldn't be too important. And if the rifle does get its much needed range upgrade, gold would still make for some very expensive shot - also a powerful message: "Civilization has ended, and the only value gold has right now is its power to bring down a deer."

1 minute ago, Docterrok said:

We're also not fighting werewolves...

Don't give future modders any ideas...  

[miah999]

4 minutes ago, Docterrok said:

We're also not fighting werewolves...

Some also say they'd be effective against vampires. But would they stop Fluffy, no.

[EternityTide]

I remember reading an interesting excerpt from a book on self-sufficiency, there was a chapter on game hunting. One of the methods for manufacturing shot was melting lead in a crucible, and then pouring it through a heavy steel sieve at the top of a 10 foot pipe, at the bottom of which was a bucket of water. The lead would slowly drip through the sieve, form droplets and then cool on the fall down, being fully solidified by the time they hit the water. The bucket would then be drained and the lead shot would then be graded, ready to fill shells as needed.

[Docterrok]

We're fighting half-werewolves in this game, I just want a shotgun.

[Docterrok]

No funny makeshift guns, I want a BOOMSTICK!

[miah999]

2 minutes ago, EternityTide said:

I remember reading an interesting excerpt from a book on self-sufficiency, there was a chapter on game hunting. One of the methods for manufacturing shot was melting lead in a crucible, and then pouring it through a heavy steel sieve at the top of a 10 foot pipe, at the bottom of which was a bucket of water. The lead would slowly drip through the sieve, form droplets and then cool on the fall down, being fully solidified by the time they hit the water. The bucket would then be drained and the lead shot would then be graded, ready to fill shells as needed.

That is how chilled shot is made for shotguns, it's a valid method.

 

[Docterrok]

1 minute ago, miah999 said:

That is how chilled shot is made for shotguns, it's a valid method.

 

In this game, I like to Netflix and chill... Without the Netflix.

my joke! Stay away! Mine! Grrrrrr

[Rifleman]

8 hours ago, EternityTide said:

I don't think you quite grasp what @miah999 is saying - this is an extremely expensive, specialist piece of equipment that  requires a fair amount of knowledge and skill to use, and costs an absolute bomb. Only firearm enthusiasts tend to have them, and most of those tend to find it cheaper to purchase boxes of ammunition than fill their own spent brass.
Canada is NOT 'Murica, they don't shout "you cannot change the second amendment!" if you look at their firearm collection in a funny way. Guns are rare (in comparison with the US), and specialist gunsmithing equipment is rarer still. 

I know it's very expensive but they should add it anyway because it's a realistic way to craft ammunition 

the game could make it that when your level 3 or 4 you can craft rifle ammunition 

[miah999]

5 minutes ago, Rifleman said:

I know it's very expensive but they should add it anyway because it's a realistic way to craft ammunition 

the game could make it that when your level 3 or 4 you can craft rifle ammunition 

It could be interesting to find a gun nuts house with all the tools you need to craft ammo, but your character has no idea how to use any of it. But there's a book or books to learn it all from. Maybe in the same location, maybe somewhere else. Could take 50 to 100 hours of study to become proficient at using the equipment. May be a neat mechanic to apply to a number of "advanced" technologies, equipment in one place, and books to learn how to use it.

Also it could impact your decision on where'd you'd like to live, do you live in the ammo factory, or the place with the wind generator and batteries?

[Tbone555]

crafting guns and ammo from nothingness or special salvaged materials? no. making a pipe rifle would feel too "Fallout," if you get my meaning.

but i've always wanted to see reloading in this game, since rifle ammo is scarce on certain maps. for instance, once my 15 rounds are gone in TWM, i'll be forced to live as a dirty scavenger or move to PV.

but each map could have a reloading press attached to each workbench. or maybe one workbench per map. you could pick up your used shells, maybe be able to find lead and gunpower in a gun store (i think this would be a nice addition for CH. the weapons and ammo would be gone, however not many people would think to loot gunpowder and lead in a time of panic) or in the weapon and ammo storage crate on TWM. reloading shotgun shells would be particularly effective, because you can fill the shells with basically anything from nails, to small coins to pebbles.

[continuity]

On 7/13/2016 at 0:00 PM, Rifleman said:

If there is a way in real life to craft rifle ammunition it should be added to the game

Even if we could make bullets and casings (dubious) its completely unrealistic to expect to be able to make gun powder.

[starfighter441]

On 7/13/2016 at 3:44 PM, miah999 said:

Um no, this is more of a work bench job at the very least. Here is what you need, just to start.

 

Not so much actually, I did just fine with this.

[miah999]

That's still a bunch of specialized Lee dies and other tool that are neither common place or cheap in Canada Except the mallet, and if you want to trust ammo mounted with a rubber mallet that's you choice. And yes, I guess if it's the apocalypse and your desperate it will be fine, I just don't know why you'd do it that way when proper tools are available.

If you're trying to be cheap, you can get a proper kit for under $400.

But you'll still need bullets, brass, powder, and primers. Brass can be recycled, but everything else, that will be up to Hinterland.

[TROY]

On 7/14/2016 at 8:34 AM, EternityTide said:

I don't think you quite grasp what @miah999 is saying - this is an extremely expensive, specialist piece of equipment that  requires a fair amount of knowledge and skill to use, and costs an absolute bomb. Only firearm enthusiasts tend to have them, and most of those tend to find it cheaper to purchase boxes of ammunition than fill their own spent brass.
Canada is NOT 'Murica, they don't shout "you cannot change the second amendment!" if you look at their firearm collection in a funny way. Guns are rare (in comparison with the US), and specialist gunsmithing equipment is rarer still. 

Canada is not "'Murica" no, but firearms are legal, and there are LOTS of firearm and hunting enthusiasts there. And yes, this equipment is specialized, and rather pricey, but it is not as rare as you claim. I live in Northern Maine, not a far stretch from the setting of this game, in many ways both culturally and economically, and I could find 50 of these reloading benchs within a days walk of my home. Furthermore, it is absolutely something that could be found in wild places, where reloading would be both a time consuming hobby for long winter days, and possibly the only way to replenish your ammunition during periods between supply runs. The Trappers Homestead? a Homesteader is someone who is self reliant in every way possible. Crafting one's own ammunition falls right into that category.  

[Rifleman]

22 minutes ago, miah999 said:

That's still a bunch of specialized Lee dies and other tool that are neither common place or cheap in Canada Except the mallet, and if you want to trust ammo mounted with a rubber mallet that's you choice. And yes, I guess if it's the apocalypse and your desperate it will be fine, I just don't know why you'd do it that way when proper tools are available.

If you're trying to be cheap, you can get a proper kit for under $400.

But you'll still need bullets, brass, powder, and primers. Brass can be recycled, but everything else, that will be up to Hinterland.

This should be the new crafting table for the long dark 

[miah999]

1 hour ago, TROY said:

Canada is not "'Murica" no, but firearms are legal, and there are LOTS of firearm and hunting enthusiasts there. And yes, this equipment is specialized, and rather pricey, but it is not as rare as you claim. I live in Northern Maine, not a far stretch from the setting of this game, in many ways both culturally and economically, and I could find 50 of these reloading benchs within a days walk of my home. Furthermore, it is absolutely something that could be found in wild places, where reloading would be both a time consuming hobby for long winter days, and possibly the only way to replenish your ammunition during periods between supply runs. The Trappers Homestead? a Homesteader is someone who is self reliant in every way possible. Crafting one's own ammunition falls right into that category.  

The Trapper's Homestead would make an excellent location for the "ammo crafting bench".

As to your point on rarity I live in West Virginia, and I don't know anyone else who loads their own ammo So I guess we can't really judge how common it may be in British Columbia Canada, based on where we live.

[TROY]

9 minutes ago, miah999 said:

The Trapper's Homestead would make an excellent location for the "ammo crafting bench".

As to your point on rarity I live in West Virginia, and I don't know anyone else who loads their own ammo So I guess we can't really judge how common it may be in British Columbia Canada, based on where we live.

Well, where I live is very close to Canada, not British Columbia, but still...  And I have friends and family in Canada, go there fairly often. Its not much different. I think perhaps the rarity of such an item would be affected by how cheap and available factory ammunition is in a given area. In a lot of places, factory ammo is heavily taxed, and regulated, making reloading a common practice. Regardless of any of that, our characters dont have to spend a dime on it, and the idea of it, the mechanic, fits so well with this game, it would be a shame for it to be omitted. 

[miah999]

I think you're probably right, ammo here is cheap, that may have a lot to do with it.

As for whether it should or should not be in the game, it's not up to us, but if it is added I want it to feel believable.

I'm not against its inclusion and never have been. I just don't want the ability to make bullets out of scrap metal and a tool box.

[starfighter441]

4 hours ago, miah999 said:

That's still a bunch of specialized Lee dies and other tool that are neither common place or cheap in Canada Except the mallet, and if you want to trust ammo mounted with a rubber mallet that's you choice. And yes, I guess if it's the apocalypse and your desperate it will be fine, I just don't know why you'd do it that way when proper tools are available.

If you're trying to be cheap, you can get a proper kit for under $400.

But you'll still need bullets, brass, powder, and primers. Brass can be recycled, but everything else, that will be up to Hinterland.

Actually they were fairly commonplace and cheap back in the 70s, and I was getting a 3 inch group at 250 yards with  rounds reloaded with a wooden mallet using the pictured Lee Loader, which brought the cost of a .303 round down from .50 cents to about .05 cents back then.

[Rifleman]

3 hours ago, miah999 said:

I think you're probably right, ammo here is cheap, that may have a lot to do with it.

As for whether it should or should not be in the game, it's not up to us, but if it is added I want it to feel believable.

I'm not against its inclusion and never have been. I just don't want the ability to make bullets out of scrap metal and a tool box.

I say scrap metal and a crafting table and before you say he/she can't craft ammunition from scrap metal remember he/she is able to make a fishing hook so I think he/she is able to bend the metal into ammunition 

also gunpowder is needed 

[EternityTide]

11 hours ago, Rifleman said:

I say scrap metal and a crafting table and before you say he/she can't craft ammunition from scrap metal remember he/she is able to make a fishing hook so I think he/she is able to bend the metal into ammunition 

also gunpowder is needed 

"bend the metal into ammunition".
You might as well say "plug the end of the gun's barrel and turn it into a gun-shaped pipe bomb".
Ammunition is manufactured to extremely strict tolerances. Going outside of these tolerances either results in the gun misfiring at best, or the gun exploding in your hands at worst. As for using scrap metal as your bullet? No, absolutely not. There's a reason why soft metals like lead and copper are used.
Steel ammunition is avoided by even smoothbore firearms users, because it's so close to the hardness of the gun barrel, you risk shredding the barrel interior. Try firing scrap-steel bullets in a rifle? absolutely not. In the best case scenario, the bullet will exit the barrel after stripping your gun of its rifling. In the worst case scenario, it doesn't deform enough to pass through the barrel and the chamber of your gun turns into a grenade right next to your face.

Self manfacturing munitions is a risky proposition unless you know exactly what you are doing, and even then, mistakes and slight flaws in your tools or materials mean you can't guarantee that your munitions are safe to use.

Also, by "gunpowder", I'm assuming you mean traditional black powder, of the composition 75% potassium nitrate, 15% charcoal and 10% sulphur, which you would NOT fire from a modern firearm. It would foul up the innards of most weapons today, and its burn characteristics mean that the muzzle velocity would be lower than that of more modern propellants, so your accuracy would suffer.
Smokeless powders are hard to manufacture by yourself, so you would need to find it, and that basically brings everything down to the fact that you'll only ever be able to manufacture  a finite amount, therefore why not just increase the amount of ammo in the world, rather than add this extra hoop to jump through. Unless you can find away to make ammunition renewable (like arrows are) then there is little point to allowing players to make their own ammunition.

[Boston123]

3 hours ago, EternityTide said:

"bend the metal into ammunition".
You might as well say "plug the end of the gun's barrel and turn it into a gun-shaped pipe bomb".
Ammunition is manufactured to extremely strict tolerances. Going outside of these tolerances either results in the gun misfiring at best, or the gun exploding in your hands at worst. As for using scrap metal as your bullet? No, absolutely not. There's a reason why soft metals like lead and copper are used.
Steel ammunition is avoided by even smoothbore firearms users, because it's so close to the hardness of the gun barrel, you risk shredding the barrel interior. Try firing scrap-steel bullets in a rifle? absolutely not. In the best case scenario, the bullet will exit the barrel after stripping your gun of its rifling. In the worst case scenario, it doesn't deform enough to pass through the barrel and the chamber of your gun turns into a grenade right next to your face.

Self manfacturing munitions is a risky proposition unless you know exactly what you are doing, and even then, mistakes and slight flaws in your tools or materials mean you can't guarantee that your munitions are safe to use.

Also, by "gunpowder", I'm assuming you mean traditional black powder, of the composition 75% potassium nitrate, 15% charcoal and 10% sulphur, which you would NOT fire from a modern firearm. It would foul up the innards of most weapons today, and its burn characteristics mean that the muzzle velocity would be lower than that of more modern propellants, so your accuracy would suffer.
Smokeless powders are hard to manufacture by yourself, so you would need to find it, and that basically brings everything down to the fact that you'll only ever be able to manufacture  a finite amount, therefore why not just increase the amount of ammo in the world, rather than add this extra hoop to jump through. Unless you can find away to make ammunition renewable (like arrows are) then there is little point to allowing players to make their own ammunition.

I love you. I keep saying that over and over again, and people just don't want to listen.

In the world that TLD offers, anything that requires international logistics and trade would basically become impossible to produce. "Modern" cartridge-based ammunition has materials that comes from several different continents (most of the world mercury for primers comes from China, for example), smokeless powder basically requires a chemistry degree to produce, as well as a stocked lab, and bottlenecked brass cartridges can only be reloaded a specific number of times before the metal gets too weak. Not to mention using pure lead bullets in modern firearms........