Is anyone else bothered by all the crybaby reviews on steam?

[Loppysaurusrex]

The people leaving these reviews are all crying about how the game is "too complicated" yet they have 100's of hours, I've played this game since the only areas were coastal highway and mystery lake, keeping up with the new game mechanics was never complicated to me.  In fact, they were welcomed as they added much needed difficulty.  The only thing I can sympathize with is the "failed release dates" but even then, if they paid attention to the massive overhauls we've already seen for so many game mechanics, the delays make sense.

TLDR: I'm salty because people are nitpicking this game on steam.

[nicko]

must be a troll fan club?  it's an alpha game and these trolls probably played less than 1hour or never update their game! just ignore them.

[Tbone555]

no matter how high anything's ratings are, no matter how much positive feedback it gets, there's always gonna be that one group of people to shoot down a masterpiece. just as people shunned leonardo da vinci for his invention of the (concepts of the) helicopter and tank, and just as people shunned the wright brothers for their flying machine, and as people shunned mozart and picaso for their works of art.
im using these examples, not only because im in my poetic novelist mood, but because i view the long dark as just that - an invention which will revolutionize survival, and maybe even gaming itself as a whole. and a completely perfect work of art. no matter the art, youre always gonna have that one group of people.
and all we can do, is remain civilized and provide reasonable explanations to any argument they drag up.

[Dirmagnos]

People are entitled to their opinions, good and bad. Game do have rather steep learning curse, with 0 intro for new players.

I remember when i started to get past first week it took me 20+ new games. I had no idea what i was doing, mostly wandering around around like complete idiot, wasting time and resources. I do watch ppl play on streams this game and most of them instantly chose "comfortable" approach, taking plenty of time just sitting indoors, burning fire without any need, wasting matches("because i got a lot of them", to the point till they suddenly have none) and food, etc. and simply spending far more than they find. Like finding Trappers Cabin, looting it, then wander around it till they run out of supplies and only then moving out, expecting to find same amounts when and if they get somewhere else.

[Loppysaurusrex]

57 minutes ago, Dirmagnos said:

People are entitled to their opinions, good and bad. Game do have rather steep learning curse, with 0 intro for new players.

I remember when i started to get past first week it took me 20+ new games. I had no idea what i was doing, mostly wandering around around like complete idiot, wasting time and resources. I do watch ppl play on streams this game and most of them instantly chose "comfortable" approach, taking plenty of time just sitting indoors, burning fire without any need, wasting matches("because i got a lot of them", to the point till they suddenly have none) and food, etc. and simply spending far more than they find. Like finding Trappers Cabin, looting it, then wander around it till they run out of supplies and only then moving out, expecting to find same amounts when and if they get somewhere else.

These aren't new players though, these are the top reviews on steam and they have 100's of hours, I'm not sure how they can't adapt to the learning curve after so much playtime

[TLD Survivalist]

Its because theyre all a buncha casual scrubs!!

[Dirmagnos]

18 minutes ago, Loppysaurusrex said:

These aren't new players though, these are the top reviews on steam and they have 100's of hours, I'm not sure how they can't adapt to the learning curve after so much playtime

I meant in general, but i need to check those out for myself to get an accurate perspective.

[strigon]

I've had one playthrough, and I'm still on it. 40+ days in, and I haven't looked up any guides; only information on mechanics (IE, how do I melt snow? How do I administer medication?). Granted, there are several times where I should have died, and I've survived by dumb luck more than once, but I don't find the game too be that complex.

It has a very simple goal; be well-fed, warm, and get plenty of drink and rest. The game is certainly unforgiving, and it can and will punish mistakes severely - even if you thought it was a good idea at the time. But it's not unfair, and I don't even think it's complicated. Unfortunately, learning from experience can often mean dying, but if you're smart, quick, and you remember what your resources and limits are, you can learn and survive.

As far as I can tell, these are people who want to be able to make a mistake and learn from it in a single playthrough, which you can do with this game, but only with cunning, strategy, or dumb luck.

 

 

I really can't fathom why they think it's too complicated; you can survive your first few days just by hopping from house to house, grabbing food on the way. That's plenty of time to learn better ways to do things. In fact, learning has always been my favourite part of this game; realizing the horrible mistake you made, and struggling to fix it as you watch your condition count down to your death, and knowing that - if you survive - it's because you earned it.

[hauteecolerider]

3 hours ago, strigon said:

I really can't fathom why they think it's too complicated; you can survive your first few days just by hopping from house to house, grabbing food on the way. That's plenty of time to learn better ways to do things. In fact, learning has always been my favourite part of this game; realizing the horrible mistake you made, and struggling to fix it as you watch your condition count down to your death, and knowing that - if you survive - it's because you earned it.

Me too. Each time I died, I thought to myself "Hmm, well that didn't go well . . . Let's try the other way next time . . ."

Because it's just a game, permadeath didn't bother me that much. Of course, I have yet to die after 30 days in -- I might feel differently then.

Then again, I might not. I might just shrug my shoulders and start a new character.

[strigon]

1 hour ago, hauteecolerider said:

Me too. Each time I died, I thought to myself "Hmm, well that didn't go well . . . Let's try the other way next time . . ."

Because it's just a game, permadeath didn't bother me that much.

Exactly!
I'd go so far as to say you're expected to die. Especially the first few times around, I've always thought the game was the story of how you died in the Canadian wilderness, not how you survived. Because, let's be honest, the stories of what people did to survive aren't nearly as interesting as the stories of how people struggled to survive against all odds!

[cekivi]

I've only ever died once while learning the base game

Then three times while trying to figure out stalker...

Once by clipping through scenery (it was a long way down!) and once by being upgraded to a more superior game (update wiped the save files)

In all, the learning curve isn't too bad but I had watched a review and a let's play when deciding whether to buy the Long Dark. As @strigon mentioned having some basic mechanics teaching is a huge help when starting out. Personally, I think there should be a simple, optional, tutorial that introduces both the characters and the mechanics. Say, a weekend at mystery lake in the fall. There can be canoeing, fire building, water boiling and if you get sick or injured NPCs to take care of you. Just some basics with some NPC interactions to flesh out the background and the setting. 

 

[strigon]

17 minutes ago, cekivi said:

In all, the learning curve isn't too bad but I had watched a review and a let's play when deciding whether to buy the Long Dark. As @strigon mentioned having some basic mechanics teaching is a huge help when starting out. Personally, I think there should be a simple, optional, tutorial that introduces both the characters and the mechanics. Say, a weekend at mystery lake in the fall. There can be canoeing, fire building, water boiling and if you get sick or injured NPCs to take care of you. Just some basics with some NPC interactions to flesh out the background and the setting.

That's a great idea!
Once you figure out the basic mechanics, all the rest sort of flows naturally, and is easily figured out, but some very basic things are somewhat hidden.

For example, if I'm bleeding and I try to use a bandage from my inventory, I can't. It's only available from the medicine menu; something you could easily spend hours playing the game and not knowing about; I certainly did!

[Docterrok]

23 hours ago, Tbone555 said:

no matter how high anything's ratings are, no matter how much positive feedback it gets, there's always gonna be that one group of people to shoot down a masterpiece. just as people shunned leonardo da vinci for his invention of the (concepts of the) helicopter and tank, and just as people shunned the wright brothers for their flying machine, and as people shunned mozart and picaso for their works of art.
im using these examples, not only because im in my poetic novelist mood, but because i view the long dark as just that - an invention which will revolutionize survival, and maybe even gaming itself as a whole. and a completely perfect work of art. no matter the art, youre always gonna have that one group of people.
and all we can do, is remain civilized and provide reasonable explanations to any argument they drag up.

i really don't like Picasso, i know that's a tad off topic, but i think his art is incoherent and rather spastic.

[Scyzara]

I've been suggesting some kind of tutorial for two years or so now, and I still support the idea.

The problem is that people's learning curves are extremely different. Some people make a mistake once, analyse and understand it and never repeat it again. Others need ten times to even figure out they did something wrong and then another ten times to develop a more successful strategy. Giving those "slow-learning" folks the option to learn the most basic game mechanics in advance might save them a lot of frustration and thus TLD quite some negative reviews in my opinion. 

Regarding modern art, I for one definitely favor Marc and Kandinsky. Their composition of colors and forms (in their late works, I mean) are just way more pleasant and enjoyable for me personally. Plus, I find their pieces of art (and the reason why both artists turned away from a figurative style and became more and more abstract over time) way easier to understand than Picasso's intentions/ideas.

[Tbone555]

6 hours ago, Docterrok said:

i really don't like Picasso, i know that's a tad off topic, but i think his art is incoherent and rather spastic.

im not too big on art myself - but he's definitely one of the worlds most renown artists. i used him as a reference to point out that is exactly what this game is - a simply perfect work of art

[Loppysaurusrex]

On 7/5/2016 at 7:43 PM, hauteecolerider said:

Me too. Each time I died, I thought to myself "Hmm, well that didn't go well . . . Let's try the other way next time . . ."

Because it's just a game, permadeath didn't bother me that much. Of course, I have yet to die after 30 days in -- I might feel differently then.

Then again, I might not. I might just shrug my shoulders and start a new character.

Just wait until you hit 150 days then get the perfect storm, advice: pleasant valley is a death trap, sprint through it

[Hotzn]

On 4.7.2016 at 4:52 PM, Loppysaurusrex said:

The people leaving these reviews are all crying about how the game is "too complicated" yet they have 100's of hours, I've played this game since the only areas were coastal highway and mystery lake, keeping up with the new game mechanics was never complicated to me.  In fact, they were welcomed as they added much needed difficulty.  The only thing I can sympathize with is the "failed release dates" but even then, if they paid attention to the massive overhauls we've already seen for so many game mechanics, the delays make sense.

TLDR: I'm salty because people are nitpicking this game on steam.

I have at times followed the negative reviews on Steam closely and indulged in discussions with many of those who wrote them. Mind you, I don't mind negative comments per se - if for example someone criticizes the delay of story mode and is so worked up about this single issue that he/she thinks others should be deterred from buying the game, well... that's maybe overly strict but still fair enough. So there are reasons that I will accept for a negative review (although reluctantly, heh). Even if someone says something along the lines of, "Sorry, but I didn't understand how the game works, I kept dying all the time and was frustrated after a while. I do not feel like coming back". That person is being honest about his/her perceptions and feelings, nothing wrong with that. But I strongly dislike negative reviews which give all the wrong "reasons". People are entitled to their opinion, but not false advertising. I hate to read things like "the map is small" or "there is nothing in the game".

Some time ago - when TLD was still at its "overwhelmingly positive" rating (or sometimes dropping only slightly below it and coming back above), my impression was that a number of the negative reviews were people who either misunderstood something about how the game works, or even how reviews work, but who weren't complete morons. A fair percentage of them would withdraw their negative reviews or even change them into positive ones after having been explained things they had misunderstood or after they had been pointed to the technical help subforums or some such. Some even reacted positively when called out - like when I implied they were lacking intelligence or patience, some would actually strike back with witty humour, discuss a little and then change their review (or sometimes leave it at negative, but give it a besser reasoning).

Lately, however, I have the impression that something has changed about the negative reviews. They have not only become more numerous, but the percentage of people you can't discuss with seems to be higher than before. I have to restrain myself here, as my opinion of people you can't discuss with is... low. And a new group of negative reviews has appeared, at least according to my perception: long-time players who dislike certain recent changes (like getting rid of leaderboards, reducing availability of torches etc.). I guess that is something that happens necessarily as soon as you reduce or cut features. Some people are not ready for change.

[cekivi]

12 hours ago, Loppysaurusrex said:

Just wait until you hit 150 days then get the perfect storm, advice: pleasant valley is a death trap, sprint through it

Or have multiple caches to survive overnight in the various structures. Not ideal but...

@Hotzn: Yeah, well reasoned negative reviews are criticism and should be taken as such (e.g. feature x doesn't work well, story mode delays) but negative just 'cause? Those reviews I dislike.

[continuity]

Looking at the store page just now there is only one negative review visible, all the others are positive.  For user reviews on steam that's actually a stellar endorsement, so I don't think there is too much to worry about.

[Hotzn]

18 hours ago, continuity said:

Looking at the store page just now there is only one negative review visible, all the others are positive.  For user reviews on steam that's actually a stellar endorsement, so I don't think there is too much to worry about.

Well, "recent reviews" (last 30 days) have been around 90% positive for quite a while now, that's 5% less than TLD used to have. The overall rating has dropped to 94% and - if things continue like this - will drop down to 93% sooner or later. Now whether or not that is a reason to worry is up for discussion (I don't think it is), but having that overall >95% rating (named "Overwhelmingly positive") would of course be better from Hinterland's perspective. I would also presume the top tier rating does have an influence on sales numbers, although i have no idea to what degree.

[EternityTide]

I honestly believe that negative reviews on the basis of "I kept dying all the time" reflects worse on the person doing the review, rather than the game. One of the things I liked the most about TLD when I first started out was the fact it DIDN'T hold your hand, that there WAS NO  tutorial that told you how to do stuff. Figuring it out is half the fun, in my opinion. Admittedly, key bindings might need an intro, but all it takes is for someone to pause, open the 'options' menu, and take a good long gander at the key bindings menu.
DayZ has a rating of "Mostly Positive" on its 150,000 reviews. I'll bet you 4.8 kilos of Fluffy meat that those negative ratings are a mixture of complaints about bugs (which are legitimate) and complaints about how "I was shot by a sniper 4 minutes into the game".
As a friend of mine frequently said whenever I complained about dying in a game "get good".
Or as I'd prefer to put it:
Harden the F*** up
Please be aware that the linked video above contains strong language unsuitable for small children, and those that can't harden the F*** up

 

[cekivi]

2 hours ago, EternityTide said:

... One of the things I liked the most about TLD when I first started out was the fact it DIDN'T hold your hand, that there WAS NO  tutorial that told you how to do stuff. Figuring it out is half the fun, in my opinion...

Yes, but I for one still think a tutorial would be a valuable addition to the game. It should be optional and, ideally, story driven as opposed to "right click to aim". Tutorials done right give you Portal. Tutorials done wrong... well, how many people remember the Temple of Trials?

[strigon]

17 hours ago, EternityTide said:

One of the things I liked the most about TLD when I first started out was the fact it DIDN'T hold your hand, that there WAS NO  tutorial that told you how to do stuff. Figuring it out is half the fun, in my opinion. Admittedly, key bindings might need an intro, but all it takes is for someone to pause, open the 'options' menu, and take a good long gander at the key bindings menu.

There's plenty of wiggle room between not knowing anything and having your hand held, though. A proper tutorial wouldn't hold your hand, but it would, for example, inform you of how to put snow on top of a fire to melt it.

The key bindings only give you the controls, you need to know some mechanics to do things properly. I'm not saying the game should teach you how to survive, but it should at the very least let you know what tools you have to survive.

[sierra 117]

On ‎06‎/‎07‎/‎2016 at 4:12 AM, Loppysaurusrex said:

Just wait until you hit 150 days then get the perfect storm, advice: pleasant valley is a death trap, sprint through it

Really?Personally PV is my favourite,,

agreed it can be tricky to master at first but once you get used to the weather patterns its actually a good map to stay I think.

usually you get 2/3 days of storms then 1/2sometimes 3 clear days. Seems to me to have the most stable weather pattern of the maps

[Baukster77]

I am a new player and am not experienced in playing PC games at all and I didn't find it too difficult to figure it out!

I started in voyageur mode for the first time, but knew soon I was in over my head. Then I played pilgrim for a while to figure out the maps, distances and basicly the limits of what I could and couldn't do. Then went back to voyageur mode and will soon try stalker mode.

Hope they don't spoil too much with a tutorial, I think it was a lot of fun figuring it all out.