Blood Trails - useless?

[vimrich]

In the event I don't get a critical, I've had much better success finding carcasses by just walking away. If I follow a trail one of two bad things happens:

1. The trail ends before I find the wounded animal, wasted time, energy and no benefit.

2. I find the animal and it just spooks and runs even further away and now for sure the blood trail will disappear (no WAY I'm going to waste a precious bullet when it will bleed out on it's own)

There's basically no way to stay close enough to wait for it to bleed out while you watch. So in the end, only the initial blood is useful in that it lets me know I got a hit. I walk away and rest for an hour or two, then go look in a path following from the encounter spot to the direction it ran off in initially. If I did NOT follow the trail, a good chance the wolf or deer will not have gone too far before dying and I find it - usually. If I try to actually use the blood trail, it's almost certain I'll never find it.

Am I missing something?

[Dirmagnos]

Blood trails are not that effective as they could be, but they are better than nothing i guess.

[Patrick Carlson]

On 7/3/2016 at 10:51 AM, vimrich said:

In the event I don't get a critical, I've had much better success finding carcasses by just walking away. If I follow a trail one of two bad things happens:

1. The trail ends before I find the wounded animal, wasted time, energy and no benefit.

2. I find the animal and it just spooks and runs even further away and now for sure the blood trail will disappear (no WAY I'm going to waste a precious bullet when it will bleed out on it's own)

There's basically no way to stay close enough to wait for it to bleed out while you watch. So in the end, only the initial blood is useful in that it lets me know I got a hit. I walk away and rest for an hour or two, then go look in a path following from the encounter spot to the direction it ran off in initially. If I did NOT follow the trail, a good chance the wolf or deer will not have gone too far before dying and I find it - usually. If I try to actually use the blood trail, it's almost certain I'll never find it.

Am I missing something?

Depending on the path the animal takes and the terrain you happen to be in, it can be tough to keep up with a wounded animal as it runs away. A good reason to be well rested when hunting and maybe carry some coffee with you. In terms of the trail itself, it should continue to bleed and create a new trail even if you spook it again. Does this not happen at all when you play? Just trying to understand your experience better. Thanks. 

[vimrich]

4 hours ago, Patrick Carlson said:

Depending on the path the animal takes and the terrain you happen to be in, it can be tough to keep up with a wounded animal as it runs away. A good reason to be well rested when hunting and maybe carry some coffee with you. In terms of the trail itself, it should continue to bleed and create a new trail even if you spook it again. Does this not happen at all when you play? Just trying to understand your experience better. Thanks. 

The issue is energy (calories) and time (cold) vs. the payoff. It takes a hour or two for the animal to die of blood loss no matter what you do. Chasing around for a hour using up calories and getting colder vs resting/warming up for a hour by a fire or indoors is a no-brainer. The benefit of chasing would have to be MUCH higher for that to be worth it. In practice, I find the carcass as often (if not more so) by my "rest and return" approach because it didn't run off as far and made fewer wild turns in direction.

As for coffee, I would never use up precious non-renewables like that for one animal hunt. There will be more animals, whereas I've got maybe 20 coffee units for the entire game. I hoard and ration anything like that for when it's essential - long haul trips porting bases between maps or getting to hard-to-reach map locations, or for dire emergencies. 

IF there was a way to take down a wounded animal with your hatchet or knife, that might change the math on calorie/time use. Not sure that's very realistic though. And even then, the benefit of warming up for a hour vs chasing around getting colder for a hour is going to be hard to beat. You've got an hour or two to kill either way.

Finally, in particular for wolves I ALWAYS rest and return, because they're always a target of accident/over-confidence.So I need to rest to heal anyway. Again, it seems like always a way better payoff to just note the direction they leave in, then go rest/heal, then go out and try to find a carcass to harvest. I might check a trail for the general direction, but never follow more than a few steps.

[Docterrok]

I agree, I can literally attack entire packs wolves with just a knife this way. I know that sounds like I'm boasting, but I just slice them, wait a few hours, come back and get those precious pelts and glorious wolf meat, to add to the boasting, I usually go nude, near Quonset, with just a knife.

[vimrich]

I should also add, that with the new update and inability to do anything useful at night now besides sleep (OK, I can harvest cloth in the dark - hooray), daylight hours are even more precious than ever. I've got books to read, items to craft, clothes to repair, and so on. All way better use of daylight than chasing an animal around.

[Wastelander]

27 minutes ago, Docterrok said:

I agree, I can literally attack entire packs wolves with just a knife this way. I know that sounds like I'm boasting, but I just slice them, wait a few hours, come back and get those precious pelts and glorious wolf meat, to add to the boasting, I usually go nude, near Quonset, with just a knife.

You know, if you had posted this anywhere else than the Hinterland forums, people'd be concerned

[cekivi]

The game really needs a high economy low light source (candles anyone?) to really capitalize on the new light restrictions

On topic, I've found blood trails be hit or miss. On my system with my settings I sometimes can't see them at all even on a clear day while well rested in the sun. Chasing an animal can sometimes be as much guessing a direction and hoping the blood trail starts again as actual purposeful play.

[markwars1972]

The only time I have trouble with the trails is when they lead straight up near vertical slopes that I can't climb.  

[nicko]

The blood trails seem good to me. v349

[cekivi]

Welcome to the forums @markwars1972

@nicko: the blood trails work much better in v0.349 but they still have problems. For instance, when tracking a wolf on Pleasant Valley the trail frequently disappeared due to the "snow glare" effect. I had to almost be looking at my feet to follow the trail...

[tnbp]

On 7/3/2016 at 0:51 PM, vimrich said:

In the event I don't get a critical, I've had much better success finding carcasses by just walking away. If I follow a trail one of two bad things happens:

1. The trail ends before I find the wounded animal, wasted time, energy and no benefit.

2. I find the animal and it just spooks and runs even further away and now for sure the blood trail will disappear (no WAY I'm going to waste a precious bullet when it will bleed out on it's own)

There's basically no way to stay close enough to wait for it to bleed out while you watch. So in the end, only the initial blood is useful in that it lets me know I got a hit. I walk away and rest for an hour or two, then go look in a path following from the encounter spot to the direction it ran off in initially. If I did NOT follow the trail, a good chance the wolf or deer will not have gone too far before dying and I find it - usually. If I try to actually use the blood trail, it's almost certain I'll never find it.

Am I missing something?

I agree with a lot of this.  One thing that I wish was implemented would be the slowing down of the wounded animal.  They spook and run at full, healthy speed.  And if there's blowing snow, the trail can be lost pretty quickly on top of that.  And if you chase them and they re-spook, they take off at full, healthy speed again.  I feel like an actual "wounded" mechanic might be a nice change.

[cekivi]

58 minutes ago, tnbp said:

I agree with a lot of this.  One thing that I wish was implemented would be the slowing down of the wounded animal.  They spook and run at full, healthy speed.  And if there's blowing snow, the trail can be lost pretty quickly on top of that.  And if you chase them and they re-spook, they take off at full, healthy speed again.  I feel like an actual "wounded" mechanic might be a nice change.

Note: In real life chasing a wounded animal will make it run farther and faster. Normally you want to wait at least 30 min before following any blood trails if you shoot an animal. However, since the blood drop system is not nuanced enough in the game (fades - even in good weather - if you wait too long) than having a slow running "wounded" animal is a good compromise. Especially if it discourages wounded animals from running over terrain that the player cannot traverse (such as steep slopes).

[tnbp]

11 minutes ago, cekivi said:

Note: In real life chasing a wounded animal will make it run farther and faster. Normally you want to wait at least 30 min before following any blood trails if you shoot an animal. However, since the blood drop system is not nuanced enough in the game (fades - even in good weather - if you wait too long) than having a slow running "wounded" animal is a good compromise. Especially if it discourages wounded animals from running over terrain that the player cannot traverse (such as steep slopes).

Fair enough.  I'm not a hunter IRL, so I don't know.  I would just assume that a wounded animal would weaken and slow down as opposed to just acting normal and then suddenly dropping dead.

[TWM]

I have to agree with the original poster.

Just the other day I shot a deer in Mystery Lake on the ridge between Clearcut and the rabbit grove with the single cabin. It's a hit, so the dear spurts off over the ridge, running through the grove in the direction of the unnamed pond.

I follow the bloodtrail, at some point a deer comes spurting back at me over the ridge again, down the Clearcut (same deer, different deer? I can't see... doesn't appear to have an arrow sticking in it...); so I follow the bloodtrail in the direction of the pond, at some point I lose it.

Now I have no way of knowing where that deer went. It could have looped back, it could have gone in some other direction.

I'd need a hoof print trail + blood trail to make sure; but if we go down that route, realism would demand animal tracks all over the place, so this seems unlikely.

Anyway, most times I make sure to shoot at a deer in a fairly open space, just move out of the way and let it die on it's own. Chances are it won't stray too far and loop back anyway.

[cekivi]

19 minutes ago, TWM said:

I have to agree with the original poster.

Just the other day I shot a deer in Mystery Lake on the ridge between Clearcut and the rabbit grove with the single cabin. It's a hit, so the dear spurts off over the ridge, running through the grove in the direction of the unnamed pond.

I follow the bloodtrail, at some point a deer comes spurting back at me over the ridge again, down the Clearcut (same deer, different deer? I can't see... doesn't appear to have an arrow sticking in it...); so I follow the bloodtrail in the direction of the pond, at some point I lose it.

Now I have no way of knowing where that deer went. It could have looped back, it could have gone in some other direction.

I'd need a hoof print trail + blood trail to make sure; but if we go down that route, realism would demand animal tracks all over the place, so this seems unlikely.

Anyway, most times I make sure to shoot at a deer in a fairly open space, just move out of the way and let it die on it's own. Chances are it won't stray too far and loop back anyway.

Even better is if you shoot/struggle with something in a confined space. For instance, the wolf that lives in the transition zone between Pleasant Valley and Mystery Lake once jumped me. After the struggle I watched the wolf ping pong off the banks of the river and the dam as it fled, hit an obstacle, turned 180 degrees and just kept running. It was almost funny how unreal it was

[cekivi]

35 minutes ago, tnbp said:

Fair enough.  I'm not a hunter IRL, so I don't know.  I would just assume that a wounded animal would weaken and slow down as opposed to just acting normal and then suddenly dropping dead.

They will weaken and slow down and they certainly don't act like normal. The exact behaviour is very dependent on where the animal is shot. Generally the animal will run and, if nothing is chasing it, find somewhere safe and hidden to lay down and rest. If something is chasing it adrenaline will keep the animal going for a long time until it either escapes or drops dead from exhaustion or its injuries. In the game, the animal just runs non-stop or acts like nothing happened after a while both of which aren't very realistic.

What I would propose is to slow the animal's running when wounded (as @tnbp suggested) and only have them sprint if the player is within a certain radius of them. Then you can stalk the animal and use the blood trails to figure out where it went if you lose sight of it.

[Hatchet]

Blood trails are useful!
For starters, you can tell by a blood trail if you shot or missed your target, sure at close range one could tell more easely but at long distances it's very handy.
Also handy in the Nomad challenge, i use my rifle to scare animals rather than kill them as there's enough canned food and candy for me to survive on, if i did however shot them i might build a fire on the first drop of blood, then i go do my thing and check back every few hours to see if i can find my prey.
You could also exploit the stat screen to see if the animal has been hit, and/if they died from bleeding but that's not very immersive.

And yesterday my own bloodtrail got me back to safety, i walked a circle while bleeding so i knew i had to take a different turn.

[EternityTide]

50 minutes ago, cekivi said:

They will weaken and slow down and they certainly don't act like normal. The exact behaviour is very dependent on where the animal is shot. Generally the animal will run and, if nothing is chasing it, find somewhere safe and hidden to lay down and rest. If something is chasing it adrenaline will keep the animal going for a long time until it either escapes or drops dead from exhaustion or its injuries. In the game, the animal just runs non-stop or acts like nothing happened after a while both of which aren't very realistic.

What I would propose is to slow the animal's running when wounded (as @tnbp suggested) and only have them sprint if the player is within a certain radius of them. Then you can stalk the animal and use the blood trails to figure out where it went if you lose sight of it.

I would suggest that animals get their own individual conditions, similar to the player. A stamina bar as well , so that they slow as time goes on. Separating an animal from a herd/pack, and driving them out into a blizzard should be a possibility, as wolves, deer and bears should not be immune to the cold and nor should they have a supernatural ability to navigate in heavy snow and gale force winds.

[SteveP]

3 hours ago, cekivi said:

Normally you want to wait at least 30 min before following any blood trails if you shoot an animal.

10 minutes or so is adequate for the deer to halt and lie down and hopefully, bleed out. The problem is, if there are other hunters about, they might claim your animal.

[Simhi]

I have a question here, about the game. Do blood-trails disappear now, once the animal is dead? Happened several times recently that they just disappeared, once right before my eyes, once when I was in the gas station for 2 seconds, dropping gear, before I was about to follow the trail.

[cekivi]

Welcome to the forums @Simhi!

I am not sure how it works now. In older builds of the game entering a location with a loading screen (e.g. the gas station) would cause shot animals to re-spawn. For instance, I once shot a bear outside the trapper's cabin, ducked inside to avoid a mauling and when I stepped back out the bear was gone. No blood, tracks, nothing. However, I have no idea if this is still the case since I've mainly been playing the challenges (no time to really hunt) or trying to get the pacifism achievement in the last few weeks.

[Simhi]

Thanks

I was searching around for the body where he ran to (up the slope from the gas station), and days later I found the body on the lake. I thought about the building at first, too, but remembered other occasions where blood was still visible after being in a building, and disappeared only then... I am utterly confused about those trails... More research is badly needed! (that is the last sentence of so many scientific articles and kinda a running gag among scientists But here, it is true! Will test more! )

[Simhi]

On 06/07/2016 at 3:35 AM, Wastelander said:

You know, if you had posted this anywhere else than the Hinterland forums, people'd be concerned

Tell me about it! I fear the moment when there is a bear outside going through our compost with the tasty over-ripe fruit and stuff, and I yell "Take your clothes off, all!" So far I could keep it to somewhat uncontrollable giggling

[Tbone555]

i have never ever had an issue with this. i've always found the blood trails a reliable method of tracking my prey. and when i go out for a hunt, i've never used the "wait and come back later" method. i've always tracked my prey, built a fire, harvested, and took it back to shelter with no problems. that is, in the rare event that i don't drop them with the immediate round.