support use antler and fat !!(poll)

[alone sniper]

Hi guys. 
Well , i think it is time to think about use the other parts of deer. 
(actually it can be for bear and wolf  but first i need to know your opinion) 
And don't forget to comment your idea! 
and i think i will create part 2! about bone and ...
                                                                                                                     And it is still  a basic idea. 
                                                                                              so please help me to improve it.
 

[Wastelander]

Hey there, glad someone finally made a poll. I'd like to add one thing though: Bone can be used as food as well - the bone marrow to be precise. It's actually pretty nutricious and even tasty when cooked. Whole bones can also be used to produce broth which also has some calories. Another use for bones could be makeshift tools - less powerful/long-lasting but easier to produce arrowheads, knives etc. Smaller bones can also be fashioned into needles, making a cheap, single-use sewing kit. Archeologists have found bone fishing hooks, sickles, hoes, harpoons - the possibilities are endless!

[Dahoset]

we can use andle/bone to craft stuff 

- bone scraping tool : we need less time to dry out a skin 

- knife 

- arrrow head

andle can be use to craft the shelter instead using stick 

or just use as decoration in TWM house  

 

 

 

[alone sniper]

1 hour ago, Wastelander said:

Hey there, glad someone finally made a poll. I'd like to add one thing though: Bone can be used as food as well - the bone marrow to be precise. It's actually pretty nutricious and even tasty when cooked. Whole bones can also be used to produce broth which also has some calories. Another use for bones could be makeshift tools - less powerful/long-lasting but easier to produce arrowheads, knives etc. Smaller bones can also be fashioned into needles, making a cheap, single-use sewing kit. Archeologists have found bone fishing hooks, sickles, hoes, harpoons - the possibilities are endless!

Thanks.
actually you got all the "part two" answers!
 

1 hour ago, Wastelander said:

the possibilities are endless

exactly.

 

2 hours ago, Wastelander said:

Archeologists have found bone fishing hooks, sickles, hoes, harpoons

yeah.
we actually will need some garden tool in future. and weapon

[alone sniper]

4 hours ago, Dahoset said:

just use as decoration in TWM house

yeah i love that house!!!

[alone sniper]

actually the poll has some misspelling. 
and need some  grammar correction. 
sorry about that. 

[Crimson Foxx]

yes Miss Typo!! hehe

Great poll. i have wanted candles for ages. i dislike the red hissy sticks ( flares) they do need to be in the game as they are a survival tool and good as markers or a light source but if candles could be crafted from animal fat or oils or even maybe bee-hive wax if bee-hives could be added into the game, maybe in the spring /summer seasons and you have to harvest the hives for enough wax for candles to last through the fall (autumn) and winter.

I like the idea of using animal bone for tools like knives and skinning blades or maybe they can be used to help in snow shelters and skin tents to tether and fix them securely.

[cekivi]

I actually had a wishlist for bone needles and hooks myself a while back

Antler can also be used for knife handles. I don't think you'd get enough fat from a deer or rabbit to really make anything out of it though. Both animals are really lean.

[Wastelander]

Just now, cekivi said:

I actually had a wishlist for bone needles and hooks myself a while back

Antler can also be used for knife handles. I don't think you'd get enough fat from a deer or rabbit to really make anything out of it though. Both animals are really lean.

Well, there's still the semi-hibernating bears if you really need a source for animal fat. Might make it worthwhile to face them down!

Also, if you're really desperate, brains are more than half fat if I recall correctly.

[cekivi]

1 minute ago, Wastelander said:

Well, there's still the semi-hibernating bears if you really need a source for animal fat. Might make it worthwhile to face them down!

Also, if you're really desperate, brains are more than half fat if I recall correctly.

Technically if we are actually tanning the hides in game the brains would be needed for that. Plus brains run the risk of some interesting diseases if you eat them...

[Wastelander]

Just now, cekivi said:

Technically if we are actually tanning the hides in game the brains would be needed for that. Plus brains run the risk of some interesting diseases if you eat them...

True. Don't animals have some subcutaneous fat layer under their skin like humans? I guess it's not that much fat, right?

[cekivi]

It's there... but it's not that much. There is fat, obviously, but not like a seal or whale. The animal fat oil lamps that I'm aware of were historically used by the Inuit and needed the really fatty seal or whale blubber. Deer or rabbit fat would be very different.

[Wastelander]

That being said, what's the chance for seals appearing in the region the game takes place? I should probably put this to another thread...

[cekivi]

Quite good actually. Seals are native to BC. I just don't know if they'd be there in the winter...

[Wastelander]

6 minutes ago, cekivi said:

6 minutes ago, cekivi said:

Quite good actually. Seals are native to BC. I just don't know if they'd be there in the winter...

..

Fortunately for their species they aren't dependant on magnetoreception, at least I can't find anything on that on Wikipedia (I'm a historian, not a biologist). So they'd probably orient just fine and stay where it's warmer.

Back on topic, simple bone knives have been mentioned before - how would we go about and craft them? With a large enough bone or antler, it could be as simple as sharpening one side with the whetstone, right? This would probably take a good chunk of the whetstone's condition but give us a knife that's good for a few uses and doesn't force us to go all Moses-in-the-desert.

[cekivi]

I don't think there's really a need to make bone knives given all the metal laying around. However, antler makes a very good material to hold a metal knife blade. I just don't know how to make one myself

[Wastelander]

Just now, cekivi said:

I don't think there's really a need to make bone knives given all the metal laying around. However, antler makes a very good material to hold a metal knife blade. I just don't know how to make one myself

Neither should the main characters. This should be a learned skill/feat.

A tad off-topic: What fish is that in your profile picture? I could swear I've seena similar one, but I can't quite put my finger on it

[cekivi]

Speckled trout. The Ministry of Natural Resources (Ontario) stocks a lake near the house I grew up in. That was me fishing two winters ago

[Wastelander]

1 minute ago, cekivi said:

Speckled trout. The Ministry of Natural Resources (Ontario) stocks a lake near the house I grew up in. That was me fishing two winters ago

Nice fish! I usually go for Zander, since I like their taste. Just fry 'em up in butter with but a pinch of salt, and thou shalt ascend to culinary heaven.

Back on topic, would a whole brain be required to cure a hide or would we be able to at least eat/make into candles the leftovers?

[cekivi]

I've never done it myself but from what I've read and heard an animal's brain is exactly the right size to tan it's entire hide.

Also, I had never heard of Zander before. It is not a species native to North America. Looks tasty though

[Wastelander]

They're tasty, but they're also pretty violent last one I caught almost bit my fingertip off. 63cm, teeth like needles, put up a hell of a fight - felt more like wrestling than fishing to be honest.

Doesn't tanning hides also require some kind of acid? If so, how could that be realistically implemented?

[Boston123]

1 hour ago, Wastelander said:

 

Back on topic, simple bone knives have been mentioned before - how would we go about and craft them? With a large enough bone or antler, it could be as simple as sharpening one side with the whetstone, right? This would probably take a good chunk of the whetstone's condition but give us a knife that's good for a few uses and doesn't force us to go all Moses-in-the-desert.

I am sorry, but in my opinion, there is absolutely no need for bone knives. Not when there is as much metal around as there is, or things like kitchen knives that logically would be there.

Not to mention that bone takes a while to grind down. I have made a bone arrowhead in real life before, and without power tools, it takes hours of grinding (it took me about 2) to grind down a piece of bone into an arrowhead. You also have to boil out the oils in the bone to make it "knife-able", that is, harden it so it can retain an edge.

It probably wouldn't damage the whetstone, though. Steel knives wear down whetstones because they are harder than the stone. Bone knives wouldn't be.

3 minutes ago, Wastelander said:

They're tasty, but they're also pretty violent last one I caught almost bit my fingertip off. 63cm, teeth like needles, put up a hell of a fight - felt more like wrestling than fishing to be honest.

Doesn't tanning hides also require some kind of acid? If so, how could that me realistically implemented?

Tanning hides "the old fashioned way" requires a slurry of animal fat and brains. The thing is: none of the animal hides we use in-game to make clothing are tanned. None of them. By letting them air-dry, all we are making is rawhide, which is decidedly inferior as a long-term clothing material.

[Wastelander]

Quote

I am sorry, but in my opinion, there is absolutely no need for bone knives. Not when there is as much metal around as there is, or things like kitchen knives that logically would be there.

Not to mention that bone takes a while to grind down. I have made a bone arrowhead in real life before, and without power tools, it takes hours of grinding (it took me about 2) to grind down a piece of bone into an arrowhead. You also have to boil out the oils in the bone to make it "knife-able", that is, harden it so it can retain an edge.

It probably wouldn't damage the whetstone, though. Steel knives wear down whetstones because they are harder than the stone. Bone knives wouldn't be.

You are definitely right about the amount of metal, however, until we get to craft with it in a reasonable way (i.e. not at the forge), we have to explore other options. I have, in my apartment, half a dozen kitchen knifes, a German army combat knife and a broadsword so I get where you're coming from.

Didn't know about the oils, can you elaborate about that? Seems interesting, and I'm always in the market for new knowledge!

Quote

Tanning hides "the old fashioned way" requires a slurry of animal fat and brains. The thing is: none of the animal hides we use in-game to make clothing are tanned. None of them. By letting them air-dry, all we are making is rawhide, which is decidedly inferior as a long-term clothing material.

This is true as well. When I build shields I use cow rawhide on the rims, simply because it gets tighter when it dries and gives the shield more stability and can take quite a few blows, but as a clothing material it's completely inferior.

[Boston123]

9 minutes ago, Wastelander said:

You are definitely right about the amount of metal, however, until we get to craft with it in a reasonable way (i.e. not at the forge), we have to explore other options. I have, in my apartment, half a dozen kitchen knifes, a German army combat knife and a broadsword so I get where you're coming from.

Didn't know about the oils, can you elaborate about that? Seems interesting, and I'm always in the market for new knowledge!

This is true as well. When I build shields I use cow rawhide on the rims, simply because it gets tighter when it dries and gives the shield more stability and can take quite a few blows, but as a clothing material it's completely inferior.

I, for one, would love to see shards of broken glass as a crafting material. Not stone, not flint, not obsidian, but glass broken from a window or a bottle. It can be used to make crude knives, arrowheads, anything where you need a sharp cutting edge. Best thing is; you don't need any sort of flintknapping/stoneworking training/skill to make broken flakes of glass.Take a shard of glass and smack it with something to knock a flake off. 

It is also decidedly inferior to using steel/metal, so there could actually be a progression of sorts. It "degrades" (aka loses its edge) extremely quickly, so you wouldn't want to use them in place of metal, and each flake couldn't be repaired. You would have to make new ones a lot.

 

antiquity.ac.uk/projgall/larsson330/images/figure3big.jpg

No need to make things overly complicated, ie flintknapping. In fact, my main "problem" with the forge is that it is "overly complicated", in the sense that I literally cannot comprehend why some random bushpilot knows how to forge metal. Blacksmithing, like flintknapping, is a "learned skill". It requires a great deal of knowledge, and can't just be "picked up" on the fly.

Bone that is "fresh" has fats and oils in it, and so long as the oil/fat is in the bone, the bone will remain relatively soft and flexible. The oils will leave the bone over time, or you can boil the bone to force the oil out.

[Wastelander]

1 minute ago, Boston123 said:

No need to make things overly complicated, ie flintknapping. In fact, my main "problem" with the forge is that it is "overly complicated", in the sense that I literally cannot comprehend why some random bushpilot knows how to forge metal. Blacksmithing, like flintknapping, is a "learned skill". It requires a great deal of knowledge, and can't just be "picked up" on the fly.

You just summed up my thoughts about the forge pretty well!

Yeah, glass is a pretty cool material and should be available in similar quantities as cloth - if all else fails, bust a window in a house you don't want to stay in. For arrowheads, I'm a huge advocate of the simple "tape a screw or nail to it" approach.