Topo Maps as Items

[Canadian Beaver]

Before I start, I realize that this is going to be contentious, but please hear me out.

I really do think that adding a topographic map as a usable item would add a lot of depth to the game, vis a vis active survival skills and the ability for players to set short-term goals for exploration.

I know the instant rebuttal is going to be "but this is an exploration game! If I have a map, everything is discovered." I can tell you from personal experience, that this is not the case. I live near a rather large National Park, and when I've got a really boring weekend with no plans, I'll haul out a topo map, find a feature that looks interesting, and hike there. First of all, just because I know that there's a steep ridge overlooking a small lake doesn't mean I know exactly what's there. It really does feel like a discovery when I get there. Also topo maps do not have everything labelled on them. For example, in CH you would see a pink block around the area occupied by the coastal town with the gas station. This block would not tell you how many buildings there were or what type of buildings they were. Still allows the player the thrill of discovery.

My second point is about the added survival skill that the player will have to learn. Navigation is not an easy skill. I am a soldier, and I cannot count the number of times that my fellow soldiers have lost their way while using accurate compasses, precision GPS, and quite good maps (in fact, I'm included in that too if I'm perfectly honest). Learning how to translate the contour lines on a topo map into what you see on the ground is a satisfying experience, and it is a skill that allows quite precise navigation. Another thing to note is I'm not talking about a google maps experience here; most people these days take maps for grated cos YOU APPEAR AS A BLOB ON THE TERRAIN. Trust me, it is much harder than that. I think it would help with my immersion, and its not like topo maps would be rare in the setting. Most good bushmen I know never leave home without one.

My third point is that it would allow goal-setting for players. Instead of saying "Im just going to go explore in that random direction today", you can say "I'm going to explore grids XX XX to XX XX, which are roughly S-E of my current position (which I've determined through inspection of the terrain and orientation of the map)". For me, this would make exploration much less daunting and would help me break it up into more manageable pieces. It also allows me to take more risk, as I can plan out food and water points, heat and that sort of thing for land that I have never seen.

Honestly, there has to be some demand for these maps as people have made them and posted them on line. And really, if you hate using a map so much, then just don't use it.

What are everybody else's thoughts?

To the Devs: If you are interested in exploring this idea further, I can send you either paper and/or digital copies of topo maps for anywhere in Canada; my branch of the military is responsible for warehousing geospatial data, and it's all public domain, as it was produced using tax money.

[shan_b]

While the map idea has been raised before, I've always thought that a 'mind map' would be really cool. As you explore areas, it is added to the map (filling in the blank spots), just as happens in real life (like remembering your way to the shops or work etc...). These maps could even shrink over a long time if you do not visit that area again.

I would find this most helpful as I don't spend a massive time gaming and sometimes return to a game a month or two later and have to relearn my way around

Just my 2c

 

[Axtos]

One static map in every location was nice. Maybee a stationary "tourist information" with a (summer) map of the region, points of interest and a big "you are here" arrow.

The "office" in the lake region or the fishing camp are good spots for.

[hauteecolerider]

There are maps in several buildings - one in the Camp Office (on the side of the counter right in front of you as you walk in the main door), and I think one in the Gas Station in CH (on the wall behind the counter). It would be nice to be able to click in on them and see those maps in better detail. I wouldn't go far as take them with me, but I would love to get an idea of the lay of the land by looking at them. It's what I did when I went to Olympic National Park in 2009 and the Cumbres & Toltec Scenic Railroad in 1997 - I looked at the maps in the Visitor's Centers to get myself oriented. 

Of course, I've always been good at impressing maps into my head . . .

[cekivi]

I'd rather have the topographic map to carry honestly. Like @Canadian Beaver said, it's not as easy to navigate with just a map as most people thing. If the sun positions are made more accurate than you can get a rough idea of North and South and you could have a lot of fun exploring (and likely getting lost) with a topographical map. Remember, most structures (small homes, cottages), vehicles, recent developments (log sort), etc. wouldn't appear on the map at all. All you'd get a physical landmarks, prominent buildings, rivers, roads, lakes and railways. Plus you'd have to find the maps first

[cekivi]

The continuation to this idea is to have a pencil so you can mark up the map (e.g. circle a spot and mark "cabin") but I don't know how well (if at all) that would work with a mouse and keyboard let alone trying to do it with a controller

[Canadian Beaver]

21 minutes ago, cekivi said:

The continuation to this idea is to have a pencil so you can mark up the map (e.g. circle a spot and mark "cabin") but I don't know how well (if at all) that would work with a mouse and keyboard let alone trying to do it with a controller

I think that the best way to implement this would be to have the marking appear on your map once you discover the location (eg walking through TWM, come across the plane engine and and a circle appears on your map with the label 'engine'). This will be even more interesting if spring is implemented as moisture ruins maps, unless they're laminated or made out of tyvek. Its great when you mark up your laminated map with the wrong kind of permanent marker and you pull it out of your pocket only to find your marks running all over the page just from your sweat.  

[cekivi]

10 minutes ago, Canadian Beaver said:

I think that the best way to implement this would be to have the marking appear on your map once you discover the location (eg walking through TWM, come across the plane engine and and a circle appears on your map with the label 'engine'). This will be even more interesting if spring is implemented as moisture ruins maps, unless they're laminated or made out of tyvek. Its great when you mark up your laminated map with the wrong kind of permanent marker and you pull it out of your pocket only to find your marks running all over the page just from your sweat.  

That sounds a lot like personal experience!

I've usually managed to keep my paper maps in very good condition. Then again, I usually keep them in a vehicle so very different than hiking or backpacking.

[Canadian Beaver]

On 2016-06-16 at 8:24 PM, cekivi said:

That sounds a lot like personal experience!

I've usually managed to keep my paper maps in very good condition. Then again, I usually keep them in a vehicle so very different than hiking or backpacking.

Yes, lots of hours walking in the rain carrying obscene amounts of gear.

I imagine it is easier to maintain maps in a vehicle. However, keeping maps in good condition when you're trekking/fighting actually requires an obscene amount of planning. Super critical, as maps can often mean the difference between life and death.

[EternityTide]

If you are using paper maps, nothing beats an acrylic tube with a firm cap either end. Of course, now the damned Ordnance Survey have stopped producing flat, roll up maps, and started printing these plasticy fold up maps that are essentially a wannabe atlas, but cover a far smaller areas, are a nightmare to fold up, and cost a small fortune. You need to buy a dozen of the damned things to gain an appreciable overview of your local region.

Of course in this situation, a ziploc with a few sachets of silicon dessicated gel work like a charm.

[cekivi]

This would actually be a fun minigame: in the era of GPS and Google maps on everyone's phone, how many people know how to read (let alone use and care for) a topographical map?

[hauteecolerider]

I do!

It was a minor hobby for a while . . . 

[continuity]

Not sure the regions are large enough to justify a map for navigation.  In a game like DayZ then sure, you've practically got an orienteering simulator there, but TLD is tiny by comparison.  

[strigon]

I'd like that, but keep man-made objects (for the most part) off the map. Have large things, like the highways, railways, the dam, and any communities on it, sure, but cabins and fishing huts and the like should be discovered by us.

Quite frankly, I think the regions are plenty big to require a map - they might not exactly be sprawling, but there's more than enough room to lose your way, or forget about a few pockets of land.

[cekivi]

3 hours ago, strigon said:

I'd like that, but keep man-made objects (for the most part) off the map. Have large things, like the highways, railways, the dam, and any communities on it, sure, but cabins and fishing huts and the like should be discovered by us.

Quite frankly, I think the regions are plenty big to require a map - they might not exactly be sprawling, but there's more than enough room to lose your way, or forget about a few pockets of land.

Ditto. Especially if the map you find is damaged or missing segments.