Lantern consumes fuel 10 times faster than in real life

[Tiikuri]

From wikipedia:

"A kerosene lamp producing 37 lumens for 4 hours per day will consume about 3 litres of kerosene per month."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kerosene_lamp

So, in real life a kerosene lamp consumes 0,1 liters in four hours.

In The Long Dark the lamp consumes 1 whole liter in 4 in-game hours, that's 10 times faster than in real life. Time in the game also moves 12 times faster than in real life, so that just magnifies the issue.

To really put this into perspective, the lantern is using about 1/4 as much fuel as an average car burns while idling. Now that's A LOT.

This certainly is a huge problem. It would be nice to just set the lit lantern on the table in the evening while doing some stuff, but I can't, because it consumes the fuel so rapidly. I'd run out of it in no time. It's so dispiriting to be in complete darkness all the time.

Wood burns in the game pretty slowly, so that's closer to reality. Please make the storm lantern more realistic too.

(Btw, you should add candles to the game.)

What other people have said about the issue in steam:

goblin:
"But me personally, i'd prefer if we could actually use the kerosene for longer periods than a couple of seconds at a time. At this rate you'd go through all the kerosene in the game in one hour of gameplay."

Chasey:
"I greatly enjoy seeing my surroundings in the game, even when I don't need to because I know where the bed is in the dark, etc. What's the point of having any cool visuals if I can't see them, eh? :P"

goblin:
"With the new sleep system, if you decide to be active rather than just pass time, it's gonna be even more important that lanterns last longer."

[Pillock]

In principle, yeah - agreed. But I think it would need to be coupled with other balance changes, like forcing you to have a minimum level of light to do stuff like crafting, repairing, sharpening, etc - even lighting fires should be harder in the dark. They could also have the progress bar for when you're searching newly-discovered containers move much, much slower when you;re without light, simulating the fact that you're fumbling about in the darkness and identifying things by touch. There could be an increased sprain risk (inside and out), and breaking furniture and crates could carry risk of injury when done in darkness (and take longer).

I totally agree that it feels natural to want to set your lantern down on a table while you're indoors after dark, and that it adds greatly to the atmosphere when you do. But it's just not sensible to under current conditions, and probably hardly anyone does unless they only plan on their character being alive for about a week, tops (or unless they're setting up a moody screenshot). I also think more should be made of lighting fires indoors, for both light and heat: at the moment you only really need it for cooking, which doesn't quite feel right to me.

But without these things, I think maybe just giving lanterns more realistic burn-times on its own might kind-of break the game a little!

[Tiikuri]

26 minutes ago, Pillock said:

In principle, yeah - agreed. But I think it would need to be coupled with other balance changes, like forcing you to have a minimum level of light to do stuff like crafting, repairing, sharpening, etc - even lighting fires should be harder in the dark. They could also have the progress bar for when you're searching newly-discovered containers move much, much slower when you;re without light, simulating the fact that you're fumbling about in the darkness and identifying things by touch. There could be an increased sprain risk (inside and out), and breaking furniture and crates could carry risk of injury when done in darkness (and take longer).

I totally agree that it feels natural to want to set your lantern down on a table while you're indoors after dark, and that it adds greatly to the atmosphere when you do. But it's just not sensible to under current conditions, and probably hardly anyone does unless they only plan on their character being alive for about a week, tops (or unless they're setting up a moody screenshot). I also think more should be made of lighting fires indoors, for both light and heat: at the moment you only really need it for cooking, which doesn't quite feel right to me.

But without these things, I think maybe just giving lanterns more realistic burn-times on its own might kind-of break the game a little!

I like the way you think. Doing stuff in the dark should be harder. That last thing you said though... How exactly would it break the game?

[Pillock]

Well, only in that if lanterns were suddenly able to be burned for hours on end on not-much fuel, and you could still do everything just as easily in the dark as you can now, kerosene would completely lose its value as an in-game item because you wouldn't be forced to use it.

[Tiikuri]

It wouldn't make things that much easier. You can already get things done pretty easily by lighting the lantern for a few seconds at a time. Difficulty is not the issue for me. The issue is that the lack of light makes the game joyless.

But definitely you should need a minimum level of light for repairing, crafting, sharpening and all that stuff. I really like that idea.

[ElvisHunter]

The storm lantern also provides a significant heat bonus and can stay alight where torches and firey brands would be extinguished from the wind. If kerosene became an abundant enough resource that you have a lamp going all the time (or even 4 hours a day) I think it would unbalance the game. 

[Pillock]

57 minutes ago, Tiikuri said:

The issue is that the lack of light makes the game joyless.

True, that's is a fair enough reason by itself, in all honesty.

Rebalancing fires so that it's more necessary (and more practically viable) to burn them indoors, especially at night, might go some way towards this, as well, though. To give a sense of cosiness when you're safe in your cabin while a blizzard rages outside. You could craft by the firelight and use brands to move around.

Long lantern burning might unbalance the game if they didn't become rarer - or the fuel, at least - or if you weren't forced to use them more often. Maybe they'd also need nerfing a little in terms of heat gain and light output, perhaps according to their condition?

[Raf109]

Ah... Why don't you use matches?

[Scyzara]

1 hour ago, Pillock said:

Rebalancing fires so that it's more necessary (and more practically viable) to burn them indoors, especially at night, might go some way towards this, as well, though. To give a sense of cosiness when you're safe in your cabin while a blizzard rages outside. You could craft by the firelight and use brands to move around.

I'm already doing this in the mountaineer's hut in TWM. Not because it's really necessary, but because I find it cozy and immersive to have a fire going most of the night. If you pick up all sticks you come across during the day (usually 30-50 for me), it's enough to keep a fire going for several hours each evening. 

2 hours ago, ElvisHunter said:

The storm lantern also provides a significant heat bonus and can stay alight where torches and firey brands would be extinguished from the wind. If kerosene became an abundant enough resource that you have a lamp going all the time (or even 4 hours a day) I think it would unbalance the game. 

Yeah, it's definitely true that the storm lantern (and its kerosene consumption) are probably rather difficult to balance. Not only because of the lantern's temperature bonus and resistance to wind, but also because it produces by far the most light. And light is currently meant to be a resource you need to manage, for example to cross mines or find all items hidden inside dark buildings. (Lantern light is brighter and reaches further than the light of a torch, flare, brand or match, hence the lantern is the best choice if you're exploring completely unfamiliar areas, lost orientation inside a cave system or just want to make sure you're not overlooking items in buildings).

If the lantern consumed much less kerosene per hour than currently, the overall amount of kerosene would thus need to be reduced accordingly (in order to keep the bright lantern light a rather scarce resource). And less kerosene would have an impact on torch crafting (= defense against wolves) and using kerosene as accelerant. It's a pretty complicated topic for sure.

I for one don't believe that it's really a more realistic kerosene consumption that is needed, but rather a means to light your base at night, e.g. while you're crafting. Candles have been suggested multiple times already for this purpose and I like this idea quite a lot.

[Tiikuri]

I can understand that light needs to be a scarce resource when you're out exploring unfamiliar places, like caves and undiscovered buildings. But the opposite is true for your base. You need to have light there. So how would we achieve light that you could have at your base all night long, but you wouldn't be able to use elsewhere?

Candles have been suggested by a lot of people, like Scyzara said. You could create a rule that candles can only be used while stationary. Even in real life, if you have a lit candle in your hand, you have to move very slowly and carefully to avoid making it go out.

Another possibility would be to have some sort of fixed unmovable light sources in buildings designed for overnight stays.

[Raf109]

58 minutes ago, Tiikuri said:

Candles have been suggested by a lot of people, like Scyzara said. You could create a rule that candles can only be used while stationary. Even in real life, if you have a lit candle in your hand, you have to move very slowly and carefully to avoid making it go out.

Another possibility would be to have some sort of fixed unmovable light sources in buildings designed for overnight stays.

1

Both ideas are pretty good. Of course we don't have electricity, but having some fixed light source to a specific building/location would be nice.

[cekivi]

Personally, I'd love for lanterns to last 10 times longer but, like @Pillock said, there'd need to be a downside to that too. I always did find it odd though that I could completely repair my torn jeans in the pitch black though

[Wasteland Watcher]

 I agree with everyone who says that the lantern needs to last as long as it does in real life, but also that we need light to do some things in the dark. 

 Granted, we probably could repair or clothes or sharpen an edge in the dark, but at a much slower rate to do these things safely. 

 Not such a bad thing though if you're just trying to pass some time and conserve fuel before going to bed

[cekivi]

26 minutes ago, Wasteland Watcher said:

 I agree with everyone who says that the lantern needs to last as long as it does in real life, but also that we need light to do some things in the dark. 

 Granted, we probably could repair or clothes or sharpen an edge in the dark, but at a much slower rate to do these things safely. 

 Not such a bad thing though if you're just trying to pass some time and conserve fuel before going to bed

I don't know about you but I definitely can't sharpen a knife in the dark. Maybe an axe but I see (or rather won't) a lot of bloody fingers fumbling around with sharp blades in the night

[Wasteland Watcher]

1 hour ago, cekivi said:

I don't know about you but I definitely can't sharpen a knife in the dark. Maybe an axe but I see (or rather won't) a lot of bloody fingers fumbling around with sharp blades in the night

I'll take your word for it

But if you hold the whetstone down via edge closer to you and just slide the knife with the edge away from your fingers and repeat, would that work?

[cekivi]

Yes and no. It would work in that you won't get injured. The trouble is with knife sharpening you need to hold the knife at the exact same angle for every stroke or you risk ruining the edge. You might be able to do it by feel... but I'd personally wait for daylight

With an axe it doesn't matter as much since it just needs and edge. Not a fine point. So axe sharpening at night is definitely possible. Just don't fumble it in the dark!

[Wasteland Watcher]

I learned something new  Thanks!!

[hauteecolerider]

Ah, well, I'm sure blind folks can sharpen knives just fine! Muscle memory and all that . . .

I do know that sewing can be done with poor to no vision . . .

 

[starfighter441]

I've said a few times here that fuel should be much more available, given that there are quite a few cars about, and even if they are abandoned due to them running out of fuel, there would still be a residual amount in the tank, say half a litre or so ( I suspect that in real life it would be more than that).  Also in Timber Wolf Mountain there are two, more or less intact, wings, and I expect that there would be a good few litres of jet fuel ( which is just kerosene really) to be scavenged from them.  

[Aelaera]

On 5/5/2016 at 10:44 PM, hauteecolerider said:

Ah, well, I'm sure blind folks can sharpen knives just fine! Muscle memory and all that . . .

I do know that sewing can be done with poor to no vision . . .

 

Sewing CAN be done with poor to no vision, but not only will you repeatedly prick your fingers, but an inexperienced sewer will run the risk of just losing their patchwork immediately. Setting stitches properly is a huge part of hand sewing, and doing so incorrectly will not only make the garment fit oddly, but also become structurally unsound. While I imagine, yes you could just do a small piece of patchwork on the front of your jacket in the pitch black, you will not be able to resew and entire shoulder seam correctly. Most of the clothing is likely to have multiple layers that are different fabrics (such as the Mariner's Peacoat, the outside is going to be a very heavy and warm wool, but it will probably have another internal lining of something lighter) and you need to be sure each layer is laying correctly so you don't just immediately tear that seam again the moment you put it on because you stitched it too tightly. Plus, for certain coats such as the Wolfskin, you'll be using a heavy duty needle, which are large and usually very sharp like these upholstery needles. I've stabbed myself with them on accident before... not a fun experience.