Pass Time / Rest sleep v.325

[nicko]

Do we require less sleep now? It seems like if I work hard during the day I only get to Rest (sleep) for max 4-5 hours max. maybe, I then wake up saying I'm fully rested. what should I do next? pitch black? I presume just hit the Rest button for the remainder and watch my calorie counter go crazy down? sheesh. Fat people would love this diet. Skinny people would wake up skin and bones

Less sleeping Is this to make us explore night time more? me maybe not  at this stage!

Edit: using v3.25 - v3.32

 

 

 

[random calliope]

I'm trying to get used to this change.  I can no longer sleep 10 hours at night like I used to, no matter how exhausted I was at the end of the day.  There aren't enough crafting options to spend it at the crafting table, or I'd do that.  If the weather is good I go outside and look at the stars.  That doesn't last very long.  If the weather is bad then I put the game down while it's running and I do something IRL for five or ten minutes (or more).  

The ability to rest without sleeping is nice, but the inability to sleep a reasonable amount isn't sitting well with me so far.  I expect it needs tuning so we can't sleep 10 hours when we are already almost fully rested (hibernate).  Anything that makes the gamer step away from the game into RL intentionally is probably not good for any game.  

[polarnomad]

I find myself with more time to admire the gorgeous sunrises now.

[hauteecolerider]

I also am having difficulty dealing with the shortened sleep times. 

What is the point of setting the number of hours to sleep when I only sleep until rested?

I don't hibernate. In fact, in my Voyager play through, I've been sleeping only 8 hours at a time, and use the remaining dark hours to boil water for the day and eat my hearty Canadian wilderness breakfast. Then as soon as the sky is light enough to see, I hit the road. Looking for firewood, hunting, checking my snares, etc. I'm outside in all kinds of weather except blizzards. 

[selfless]

I find myself sprinting at every opportunity in hopes of being fully exhausted before the sun goes down, but it's not working.  

Gotta find some other arbitrary yet strenuous activity.  Maybe I'll set my next camp near a ropeway...

Yeah...

[hauteecolerider]

1 minute ago, selfless said:

I find myself sprinting at every opportunity in hopes of being fully exhausted before the sun goes down, but it's not working.  

Gotta find some other arbitrary yet strenuous activity.  Maybe I'll set my next camp near a ropeway...

Yeah...

That does the trick . . . 

[Hotzn]

I'm also trying to get used to the new mechanic. One thing I would like to be changed: The current "rest" should be called "sleep", and the current "pass time" should be called "rest". "Pass time" sounds like "waste time", and that's weird somehow, especially at night. Also, wasn't there a "rest & pass time" button for a short time? Why was it removed? The current "pass time" shouldn't cause fatigue to rise. I would like to see a button "sleep & rest until dawn", so I don't have to go through a clickfest to pass the night and come out fully rested in the morning. As things are now, I set the timer to sleep, let's say, 10 hours. I then wake up in the middle of the night fully rested. Then it's passing time a bit, but - since that tires me again - I go back to sleep/rest when my fatigue allows it. Too much clicking for the goal I want to reach - which is getting up in the morning fully rested.

[vancopower]

I don't know what is the problem here, I quite like the new sleep mechanic it works for me. off course you can't sleep for more than 10 hours what are you a baby? I am talking about the survivor in the game, off course . Well if you don't want to waste time waste lantern fuel instead just explore in the dark, since everything decays now from the moment you start the game the faster you loot the better, and one way to loot more is to go in to the dark. If you need to heal up and you are rested just pass the time until it is daytime then sprint like a gazelle collect some sticks and you will get tired very easily then go back and heal up. I believe that this mechanic is the best thing in this update it adds more realism flavor   to the game together with the unthrow-able flares and only craft-able torches makes you rethink your whole surviving strategy.

[McGuffin]

Actually, I think this is quite well balanced.

I did ran some tests:

When fulling exhausted, we need 10 hours of sleep to fully recover
When only passing time (resting without sleep) it takes 24 hours to be 100% exhausted: this make sense: we do nothing.
So far, when wandering around, hunting, crafting etc... we get down to around 80% exhausted in 10-16 hours (average, depending of what we do), then we need to sleep 8 hours to fully recover.
In real life we never go to sleep when fully exhausted, but when tired. then we sleep between 6 and 8 hours (average)

The thing is, if we pass time only by waiting a lot, or sleeping during day, it's longer to get tired enough to sleep enough during night,
That make sense, I think.
It's up to us to  balance our clock

 

 

[Scyzara]

10 hours ago, McGuffin said:

So far, when wandering around, hunting, crafting etc... we get down to around 80% exhausted in 10-16 hours (average, depending of what we do), then we need to sleep 8 hours to fully recover.

Immersion-breaking problems with "sleeping through the night" are most likely to occur in Pilgrim and Voyageuer games imo because your fatigue level increases slower than in Stalker in these modes. An active playstyle (exploring/climbing ropes/chopping wood/crafting items instead of just sitting around somewhere passing time) also decreases these problems ofc.

I for one am exhausted almost every evening (in Stalker) anyway, so I automatically sleep through almost every night accordingly. Sometimes I wake up one or two hours before dawn, but that's no big issue and not really immersion-breaking for me.

I can, however, well-imagine that it must be quite frustrating to spend all of your nights with a combination of sleeping and passing time because you don't manage to get your fatigue bar empty enough during the course of the day.

Maybe the rest gain per hour while sleeping could be decreased a bit in Voyageur and especially Pilgrim to give players the possibility to "sleep through the night" even if their fatigue bar is still at 40% or so in the evening?

 

[Pillock]

Well, I play Voyageur at the moment, and I've recently been staggering through blizzards back into my shelter on 80% condition because of fatigue and cold, with two sprained ankles and a sprained wrist, just as it's getting dark.

Eight hours later, I'm fully recovered, fully rested, I've had some water to rehydrate and it's still dark for another 2 hours. I can't sleep and I can't see anything because I have no lantern. I can't do anything except either blunder around randomly in the blackness trying to find the door, or wait for daylight. The tactic of "Pass time" for an hour then "Rest" for another hour seems to work OK to make sure you start the day fully recharged and fit. But it's a hassle. Sometimes I just lose patience and waste some matches so I can find my way to the stove and at least get brand lit.

I can see why this change has been made, but it doesn't work properly yet; there needs to be some tweaking, certainly.

[McGuffin]

Yes I ran my tests in Stalker since I always play in that difficulty.

Maybe this needs to be balanced for other difficulty, but the logic stay the same however, and we need to change the way we play to take these changes in consideration.
Before that was common to sleep until our condition (hp) get up to 100%, even during daytime, things didn't matter, now we need to manage that too.
I think it's a good thing, and I actually like that, because this adds some insecure feelings.

As I said, if you are not tired at all, it's kind of hard to get to sleep.

But it's a change and it's often hard to accept changes.

however, the one thing I always find weird in TLD is the ability to sleep a given amount of time (since we don't have any watch or alarm to wake us up).

We probably should not be able to control this, especially if we are exhausted. But external events during sleep time should have an effect(like day time, wind sounds, big temperature change, etc...)

[Nasdaq401]

I really don't like having to pass time just to sleep again.  I'm hoping they add to this because it breaks immersion.  I did see a dev mention something about solitaire!

[nicko]

On 4/23/2016 at 8:51 AM, Hotzn said:

I'm also trying to get used to the new mechanic. One thing I would like to be changed: The current "rest" should be called "sleep", and the current "pass time" should be called "rest". "Pass time" sounds like "waste time", and that's weird somehow, especially at night. Also, wasn't there a "rest & pass time" button for a short time? Why was it removed? The current "pass time" shouldn't cause fatigue to rise. I would like to see a button "sleep & rest until dawn", so I don't have to go through a clickfest to pass the night and come out fully rested in the morning. As things are now, I set the timer to sleep, let's say, 10 hours. I then wake up in the middle of the night fully rested. Then it's passing time a bit, but - since that tires me again - I go back to sleep/rest when my fatigue allows it. Too much clicking for the goal I want to reach - which is getting up in the morning fully rested.

I tend to agree with you.

The more I play v.332  the more I think something is still not right with Pilgrim sleep mode.

I get what it's doing maybe the wording of Pass time / Rest needs to be changed as @Hotzn suggested.

My suggestions would be : Sleep / Deep Sleep Recover?

or Doze Nap / Rest Sleep Recover. 

Maybe HT dev team do poll for a change? I'm sure you would get awesome feedback.

also love to see more official polls from the HT team. no matter what subject.

 

[Larken]

I am a new player, but as someone who has spent substantial amounts of time in the wilderness, I can say that your bodily clocks tends to adjust very quickly to sleeping when the sun is down and awakening near sunrise.  Awakening typically happens 1.5 to 2 hours before sunrise.  I don't think it is so much the amount of time that I sleep that I have a problem with though.  I think the problem is how much fatigue is being attributed to actions.  I think breaking up a branch as you gather firewood takes too long and too much energy.  Also, since it is small, why do I need to break it up where it lies instead of dragging it back to a windbreak.  At the same time, I think that slogging through snow as I'm exploring up and down hills does not fatigue me nearly as much as it should.  If I did that much exploring in real life for an entire day, even without the snow, I would be beat and ready to sleep after I eat and the sun sets.

However, that being said, I think the game is amazing.  The only game I've played that is comparable to a real survival experience is Wurm Online, so amazing job at what you have so far.

[Wastelander]

Quote

Gotta find some other arbitrary yet strenuous activity.

Sounds a bit like job hunting

[cekivi]

@Hotzn: that has been my experience as well with the new sleep mechanics. Since it is presently very difficult to explore or do other things outside at night I find myself just passing time until I can sleep again and the sun comes up. Not the most invigorating gameplay.

However, if a more defined lunar cycle was added so you could see outdoors at night... well, that'd be different. I may risk a night time hunt by the full moon if the lighting was 50% that of the day. It's amazing how much light there actually is in winter during a full moon. Snow is unsurprisingly very reflective

[Larken]

The middle of the night is pretty dark, which is realistic especially in the forest.  However, because I can't sleep all night, I like to set out about 1.5 to 2 hours before sunrise to gather wood to replace what I expended the previous night.  If I've gone to bed on a full stomach, then I'm "hungry" when I get back and can eat some breakfast before setting out for a day of exploration.