Water Mechanics

[hauteecolerider]

8 hours ago, cekivi said:

So, I agree, there are strange elements to how water is handled now but what's missing is just as weird. On a whole, if the only thing changed is requiring a pot and allowing you to do other tasks while waiting I'll be very satisfied.

Ditto.

Actually, eating snow will increase the risk of hypothermia. Your body has to warm up the snow and in doing so burn more calories and lose more heat. From the inside out, no less. So melting snow is safer than eating it. 

[Vhalkyrie]

16 minutes ago, hauteecolerider said:

Actually, eating snow will increase the risk of hypothermia. Your body has to warm up the snow and in doing so burn more calories and lose more heat. From the inside out, no less. So melting snow is safer than eating it

This.  Climbers of Mount Everest melt and boil the snow.  It might not harbor bacteria like TLD implies, but it is not a good idea.  If you have to eat snow to cool your body temp, you have overlayered your clothes for the conditions.  Take off that flannel, you hippie!

[cekivi]

2 hours ago, Vhalkyrie said:

This.  Climbers of Mount Everest melt and boil the snow.  It might not harbor bacteria like TLD implies, but it is not a good idea.  If you have to eat snow to cool your body temp, you have overlayered your clothes for the conditions.  Take off that flannel, you hippie!

I take the Les Stroud approach to snow eating: if I'm in good condition (warm and healthy) in a benign environment (not Everest!) and being active than eating snow isn't bad. If a little snow is going to give you hypothermia than you have far bigger concerns than being a little thirsty

For instance, when I used to snowshoe a lot I'd eat snow. Never got sick nor hypothermic. However, I also wouldn't eat snow in the dark, in a blizzard while already freezing. It's all about context and personal risk/reward assessments.

[hauteecolerider]

19 hours ago, cekivi said:

I take the Les Stroud approach to snow eating: if I'm in good condition (warm and healthy) in a benign environment (not Everest!) and being active than eating snow isn't bad. If a little snow is going to give you hypothermia than you have far bigger concerns than being a little thirsty

For instance, when I used to snowshoe a lot I'd eat snow. Never got sick nor hypothermic. However, I also wouldn't eat snow in the dark, in a blizzard while already freezing. It's all about context and personal risk/reward assessments.

Of course, you were burning a lot of calories at the time! But eating snow regularly robs your body of calories that can be better utilized for more essential metabolic needs. And when you're flirting with starvation as I seem to be doing a lot of in TLD (especially on Voyager), it becomes the last straw. So boiling water is just a good habit.

Also, there is airborne bacteria and other infectious particles that serve as a focus for snowflake formation. So even fresh fallen snow isn't quite as clean as we would like to think it is! And it would definitely explain why I always got a scratchy throat after eating snow . . .

[Schneidox]

The storage of water is definitely the bigger problem, and being able to melt snow in any location is the second imo.

I recently killed a bear and two deer, harvested and cooked about 45kg of meat, and boiled over 30kg of water and had that many bottles on a desk to last me long enough to get my Living Off the Land achievement. 

Looking at that many plastic bottles really struck me as ridiculous. I think there are numerous containers from large to small the devs could add, and players would just have to manage space. Deer and bear stomach has been proposed, there are flasks, thermos', water coolers for locations like the gas station and signal hill, and even filling bathtubs, sinks or toilets with boiled water.

Although personally, I still don't understand how water from toilets is potable. God knows how anyone in their right mind would be willing to get down and gulp a big mouthful of toilet water at a gas station!!

[hauteecolerider]

The one time I pulled water out of a toilet (no, not the one at the gas station), it was not potable and needed boiling/purification . . .

[Schneidox]

I've done quite a few times. Potable. 

[Vhalkyrie]

12 minutes ago, Schneidox said:

Although personally, I still don't understand how water from toilets is potable. God knows how anyone in their right mind would be willing to get down and gulp a big mouthful of toilet water at a gas station!!

Water from the cistern is clean and safe.  Water in the bowl is not.  If you live in hurricane or earthquake zones, tap water is generally unsafe after a disaster. You can use water from the cistern in an emergency.

[Schneidox]

And yet we get our water from the bowl in the game. 

[cekivi]

2 hours ago, Schneidox said:

And yet we get our water from the bowl in the game. 

Chalk it up to design oversight

 

[Pillock]

10 hours ago, Schneidox said:

And yet we get our water from the bowl in the game. 

Do we? I don't think it's represented either way: it's just in the "toilet"?

[Scyzara]

Some of the toilets (e.g. the Quonset Gas station toilet) don't have a cistern and you can still collect water from them. One might thus assume our character is taking water from the bowl, at least from these kinds of toilets. And I agree it's pretty odd that the bowl water is classified as potable whereas melted snow is not.

[Vhalkyrie]

Well, all North American flushing toilets have a cistern, whether it's visible or not.  The cistern is needed in order to produce a lot of volume to flush waste away.  Bidets don't have cisterns I don't think, but they aren't common in North America.

I just assumed the potable water was coming from the cistern, but it isn't really clear as you can click on the bowl and get water.  Which is gross!  Perhaps they should make the bowl area non interactable so it's clear it's from the cistern.

[nicko]

If it tastes like an off wine you know your drinking piss. I try to avoid it.

[Pillock]

25 minutes ago, nicko said:

If it tastes like an off wine you know your drinking piss. I try to avoid it.

Thanks for the hint. Now you've said that, I too will try to avoid drinking piss.

[nicko]

be sure to boil it.

[Vhalkyrie]

Since all melted snow is non-potable, does that mean we're eating the yellow snow?

 

[nicko]

horse piss

[Sly]

On 4/10/2016 at 5:06 PM, Scyzara said:

Some of the toilets (e.g. the Quonset Gas station toilet) don't have a cistern and you can still collect water from them. One might thus assume our character is taking water from the bowl, at least from these kinds of toilets. And I agree it's pretty odd that the bowl water is classified as potable whereas melted snow is not

Yep.

On 4/10/2016 at 6:19 PM, Vhalkyrie said:

Since all melted snow is non-potable, does that mean we're eating the yellow snow?

IRL no. Every one knows to not eat yellow snow. So characters in game should. And the possibility to get poisoning from eating snow from wast territory away from  animal spots is very low if having little survival skill.

On 4/9/2016 at 9:01 AM, cekivi said:

For instance, when I used to snowshoe a lot I'd eat snow. Never got sick nor hypothermic. However, I also wouldn't eat snow in the dark, in a blizzard while already freezing. It's all about context and personal risk/reward assessments.

Good point.

On 4/9/2016 at 5:55 AM, hauteecolerider said:

Actually, eating snow will increase the risk of hypothermia. Your body has to warm up the snow and in doing so burn more calories and lose more heat.

Yep.

On 4/10/2016 at 4:53 AM, hauteecolerider said:

Also, there is airborne bacteria and other infectious particles that serve as a focus for snowflake formation. So even fresh fallen snow isn't quite as clean as we would like to think it is! And it would definitely explain why I always got a scratchy throat after eating snow . .

Disagree. Pathogenic bacteria usually  have a very small range of temperature to stay alive. Freezing kills 99.9% of species. Very few like anthrax and tuberculosis bacteria form spores and could survive. Others are non-pathogenic. Have you ever heard about case of anthrax after rain? That is because no pathogenic bacteria form focus for raindrop/snowflake formation almost at all.

 

[MarrowStone]

Youd be surprised by how many plastic bottles are laying around when you look for them, theyre everywhere.

In that case, do we really need to introduce a dumpster diving mechanic? Sounds pretty tedious instead of adding interesting gameplay. Id much rather have our character idly pick them up than have to actively find them; wasting valuable accelerated time.

However, a mess kit for cooking would make sense. 

And using objects as basins would be too. 

Also when the real time cooking is implemented we might see it handled better or more tolerable

[Sly]

On 4/4/2016 at 2:31 PM, Vhalkyrie said:

The tablets are a waste - I never carry them.  I'd just like for them to be useful.

I think might be a way more useful if they do purifying process passive outdoors, while the boiling/melting outdoors might be active (IRL you generally must pay much attention to do such thing without special equipment like triangle and cauldron, witch is rather heavy to carry, regarding survival situation). So, if there is a way to get non potable water from an ice fishing hole or a running stream near a waterfall, with the tablets will be no need to build the fire only to boil the water. And maybe indoors water tablets could be more effective, purifying relatively big amount of water for longer exposition (passively). 

And of course the melting/boiling should be passive process at the stows.