Should there be modding in the game?

[nicko]

last I heard Hinterland where supporting modding but not until a later window, which is also stated in their RoadMap, which im sure they will update for July

http://hinterlandgames.com/the-long-dark/roadmap/

Either way once mods come out the game is pretty much up to the public to determine it's future of the game! damm shame!

Also most mods you can't control the quality etc. it's up to the modder to try respect the developers recommendations/specs. many fail.

 

[Viktor Kvasnica]

Hello, folks,

I am all in for a modding support, as always.

TLD is an exceptional game, fun and educational at the same time, and I love it. I am still missing one thing: that is a realistic passage of time. With such a feature the game will be, for me, just perfect. With a modding support I hope I will be able to add such feature.

Take care and keep up the good work!

Vik

[Docterrok]

if my character cant have boobs, i dont want modding...

[Wastelander]

On 6.7.2016 at 10:50 PM, Docterrok said:

if my character cant have boobs, i dont want modding...

If you spend more than twelve seconds per day on the internet, you know exactly what the first mods will be...

But that's a good thing - modders need to explore the tools they get, and if they make something funny/weird/disgusting to do so, at least people will see it and give technical feedback. Kind of like how people played Besiege: First day was penises and swastikas, second day was breaking the laws of physics, third day was breaking the game, and it was all done in a very creative way while exploring just what you can do with the given toolset. It was ugly, sexist and pre-school-level of humor, but it was also creative and figured out a lot of stuff.

[nicko]

hrm I still cannot see why modding will be worth it for this game? some one tell me or explain it in more detail? thanks.

[strigon]

9 minutes ago, nicko said:

hrm I still cannot see why modding will be worth it for this game? some one tell me or explain it in more detail? thanks.

It's very simple.
Some people will always want something new or different in the game that the devs will never put in. Or they might not like something the devs have already put in. Mods would allow you to adjust these things, meaning you can enjoy this game more, as opposed to having to switch to an entirely different game for a different experience.

For example, suppose I don't like only having one rifle, and one type of ammunition. I don't like using the same thing on bears and wolves; I want something smaller, with more plentiful ammunition that I won't feel I'm wasting if I hunt small game. A mod would allow me to have that, but I'd still be playing TLD in its most essential form. Or suppose I don't like snow shelters; suppose I think they're overpowered. I like the idea of an emergency shelter, but I think that it's either too easy to make or too powerful. I could have a mod that makes them more costly, or less durable, or less effective, or even one that had different types of shelters, requiring different materials and providing different benefits.

TL;DR, while the devs have done a great job balancing the game and making it enjoyable, there will always be a specific camp of people who enjoy the game, but would love it if this one thing were different. Mods would allow these people to enjoy the game more without ruining everyone else's experience.

[nicko]

hrm so basically your saying the game is screwed if mods happen

[strigon]

3 minutes ago, nicko said:

hrm so basically your saying the game is screwed if mods happen

How so?
It's not as if you're going accidentally get mods in your save file

[nicko]

i guess

[SteveP]

6 hours ago, nicko said:

hrm I still cannot see why modding will be worth it for this game? some one tell me or explain it in more detail? thanks.

1. An obvious community benefit is the possibility of sharing user created regions.
2. Additional animals would be great too, if that were possible.
3. Custom characters appearance would be nice, although currently, we can't see our player; no mirrors.
4. It enlarges the community base and is insurance of future capabilities in case Hinterland can't for any reason
5. New tools and weapons
6. Customizing appearance of houses with pictures, decorations etc.
7. Reduce workload for Hinterland
8. New survival options
9. Photo albums

[continuity]

I love the idea of modding, I personally always play a game vanilla until I feel i've "completed" or mastered it before looking at mods, but once I get to that point mods can add huge amounts of value in replayability.  I'd love to see all sorts of mods, esp a realism mod, and scenarios, plus difficulty mods.  Remains to be seen if there are enough talented people in the community willing to put in the time but I hope so.

[mjv96]

+1 for modding.

I've played many a game to the end but when I mod them, it always breathes new life into the game. It's true that it will change the nature of the game but at the same time, it's a personal choice to actually use a mod. In some cases, the modding community has saved a terrible game from drifting away into the night. There's nothing wrong with enjoying a vanilla game but don't limit the communities creative talents but turning it into another Sid Meier's Pirates. Let the modder's mod the game and let the gamer's choose whether to use the mods or not.

[Dirmagnos]

For a game to gave mods its always good. Its one of those few universal constants in gaming.

It extends game life of the game(usually by a lot), greatly expands community(by bringing in not just modders, but people who otherwise would not play game, since it have or lack features they search for or hate), vastly expands game world, gameplay, options, items, critters, etc, that expands reliability factor.

Pretty much every game i know have greatly benefited from it. Witcher 3, that is a superb game on its own(an extreme rarity nowadays), became only better. Piece of shit Fallout 4, something that i wouldnt touch in its vanilla state even with a long pole, became fairly enjoable after i dumped 50+ mods on it(altho Bethesda is not making it easy by making progressively worse games and now even trying to monopolize modding community). Civilization 5, with its open data files, allowing to mod practically everything by just editing .xml files. So on and so forth. Right now i have about a dozen games installed that  have been modded to various degrees. And i find that survival games benefit the most from modding.

[Wastelander]

2 hours ago, Dirmagnos said:

And i find that survival games benefit the most from modding.

This. We see it on these forums directly: Some people want more realism, some want more simplicity, some want both. Hinterland can not and should not try to satisfy all of those groups. Trying to satisfy everyone usually, if not always fails. However, that's where the modding community comes into play.

[BlueJack20]

I usually stay away from modding because its really hard to find well made, stable ones. The search gets even harder when you add "lore friendly" into the requirement. I also found that the more mods are available to a game, the worse the vanilla quality. It makes me wary about games with famous modding capabilities.

I'm also wary on how mod availability will affect the usefulness of the wish list section here. Without mods, I feel surer the devs are listening to the wish list section and that if anything on the wish list is implemented in game, it will work seamlessly with the rest of the game.

[Dirmagnos]

1 hour ago, BlueJack20 said:

I usually stay away from modding because its really hard to find well made, stable ones. The search gets even harder when you add "lore friendly" into the requirement. I also found that the more mods are available to a game, the worse the vanilla quality. It makes me wary about games with famous modding capabilities.

I'm also wary on how mod availability will affect the usefulness of the wish list section here. Without mods, I feel surer the devs are listening to the wish list section and that if anything on the wish list is implemented in game, it will work seamlessly with the rest of the game.

That "90% of everything is crap" apply everywhere and in modding community you wont see 90% of that 90%, since its either so crappy or so specific that it wont even surface. I find modding to be great, especially if were dealing with games that are otherwise crap or rather average, where modding can absolutely save the day. It becomes a problem when were dealing with shitheads like Bethesda, who are so used that modders plug their holes and make content for their games that they dont even try to make anything of value  anymore and now even try to make a grab on other ppl creation.

And your objection of mods seems to be based on fear that mods make game better ??!?!?! Thats.... something new.

Also, wish list section and moddding are not mutually exclusive things. Id say they actually compliment each other. Modders may pick up on ideas that appear in wish list section, while devs may find interesting developments in mods section. In general, devs have only so much time and manpower to develop game, while modders are legion. There is just no way that devs will be able to incorporate even half of what appears in wish list into the game, as they have their own vision of how things should be and have to make compromises(especially when dealing with opposite ideas). And thats where modders come in to fill the gaps or develop in directions that devs are either unwilling or incapable of going(horny bear mod... anyone...anyone...cmon people, give me a horny bear mod, some1...).

[BlueJack20]

9 hours ago, Dirmagnos said:

I find modding to be great, especially if were dealing with games that are otherwise crap or rather average, where modding can absolutely save the day. It becomes a problem when were dealing with shitheads like Bethesda, who are so used that modders plug their holes and make content for their games that they dont even try to make anything of value  anymore and now even try to make a grab on other ppl creation.

And your objection of mods seems to be based on fear that mods make game better ??!?!?! Thats.... something new.

Mods make games better, that I agree. My objection comes from observing the trends that games with lots of mods are generally crappy (the vanilla version). If enabling mods means the dev gets a pass on sending out half baked content like with Bethesda, I'd rather not have mods. Less mods seem to translate to more responsibility from the creator's side to me, which in my head translates to higher (base game) quality.

10 hours ago, Dirmagnos said:

There is just no way that devs will be able to incorporate even half of what appears in wish list into the game, as they have their own vision of how things should be.

I'm more interested in their vision to be honest, hence why I don't much care for mods. The wish list is there for ideas and improvements, but the devs will only implement if it aligns with what they think TLD is trying to do = automatic lore friendly qood quality "mod" (at least to me). Bottom-line: as long as availability of mods wont lower the standards of the base game, I don't have an issue with it.

[Dirmagnos]

7 hours ago, BlueJack20 said:

Mods make games better, that I agree. My objection comes from observing the trends that games with lots of mods are generally crappy (the vanilla version). If enabling mods means the dev gets a pass on sending out half baked content like with Bethesda, I'd rather not have mods. Less mods seem to translate to more responsibility from the creator's side to me, which in my head translates to higher (base game) quality.

I'm more interested in their vision to be honest, hence why I don't much care for mods. The wish list is there for ideas and improvements, but the devs will only implement if it aligns with what they think TLD is trying to do = automatic lore friendly qood quality "mod" (at least to me). Bottom-line: as long as availability of mods wont lower the standards of the base game, I don't have an issue with it.

Mods make games better for people who are willing to go an extra mile... or ten... or hundred. And while mods may save the game, they do not appear instantly and in few first months after release that are usually most crucial from sales standpoint mods are fairly irrelevant, since it takes time for modders to figure out where is what and how to make their ideas come to live. Id say its around a year after release, when modders start making real difference. And while modders can make a huge difference from this point on, game rating is usually set by that time.

Another thing to consider, in terms of modding, is that proper modding cannot commence until at least a year after release, due to modern devs being used to use players as free beta testers, and saving millions in the process on proper QA. As result he have patch after patch after patch, now they are even releasing beta versions of patches *facepalm*, making modders life difficult, to put it mildly, since they have to constantly update their mods to stay current. Quite often supposed release version is not much different from beta or alpha versions. 15 years ago 2-3 patches were considered norm, often going with 1-2 and games used to be playable even at version 1.0. And most of those patches addressed minor issues, with gamebreaking bugs creating a huge uproar(nowadays its norm, people are just to told to wait for next patch... that may not fix the problem anyway, lol). But now it often takes like a million patches to make game playable on any satisfactory degree. I remember ho much shit was flying around when 3DO released unfinished MM9, that was thrive with various bugs. But they were on verge of bankruptcy, so it kinda was "all or nothing" move. What is excuse for modern developers ? Aside of incompetence ? How does Bethesda manages still make games full with various bugs, even tho they still use ancient engine from 15 years ago, on which they made 5 different games already ? And compare it to CD-Project RED, who made a superb game on a completely new engine, with a huge game world and ton of features and items... and it still had less bugs that vanilla Fallout 4(im absolutely sure that F4 was just a cash cow, judging by lack of attention to the game and their explanation to various features, like number of companions or limit on building, Bethesda is just milking title).

Its not quality but hype that rule gaming industry at the moment. Devs dont even bother make quality games since they know that they will get away with it. Division is a great example - promoted as next everything it lost 90% of its player base in less than a year. WTF ! Currently its No Mans Sky - often mentioned in player reviews that describes it perfectly "ten miles wide, three inches deep" - game feels more like tech demo rather than a game. It has... well... nothing in it. Player learns everything there is to learn about game in first couple of hours, and even that if hes taking it extremely slow. But overhyped to high heavens. One of the reasons why i consider most of the review sites, be it Metacritic(only read player reviews there) or RPS, to be simply full of shit. They are as biased as western media - companies buy their add space and in return they get good reviews, no matter what crap they release. For a game, from a major developer/publisher, to receive a negative or even average review, game must be an absolute and utter shit. Just by being a game from a big company it means it gets a few bonus points apparently. For nothing.

Mods offfer players a different kind of experience compared to vanilla game. Some may find base game to be all that they need. But ive been playing games, on an unhealthy level, for over 20 years now. I find most of modern games to be boring or get boring fast and modding is often what saves game for me. By either adding things that i just need to have, more the merrier, or changing features that i just cant live with. There are games that are just good as they are, but mostly i need more. I loved Tomb Raider(2013, still havent got to new one, intend to replay first one again and after that instantly move to Rise) and its good as it is. But i also absolutely love Deus Ex Human Revolution, but i just cant imagine that game without inventory mod, that decrease size of all weapons and allows far higher item stacks.

I think that tLD would only benefit from modding option, since it would allow game to evolve in so many different directions at once, based on what tools will be released. Items, maps, needs, hazards, wildlife - there is a huge potential for any taste and skill level. After all, if youre not into it, nobody is stopping you from just playing vanilla game.

[Rifleman]

On 2 April 2016 at 8:14 AM, cekivi said:

Should there be modding in the game? It's a question that comes up a lot especially when it concerns difficulty levels, animal behaviour and weather. However, @Raphael van Lierop has said in the forums that he's not in favour of modding since it would change the game to the point where it isn't The Long Dark any longer. I was wondering what the community's opinion was and whether there was a middle ground. Personally, I'd love to be able to add custom items (e.g. scoped rifle, ice fishing auger) and my own maps which, realistically, I would never have time to build!

However, I'm also of the opinion that as far as the overall game and atmosphere is concerned the developers have a really solid handle on what makes The Long Dark great and I have no interest in messing with it. So, community input is good... but only to a certain extent!

What are your thoughts?

What if some people are already moding.  _{people like me}

 

[cekivi]

Two things:

One, amazing discussions but please try to avoid profanities.

Two, Hinterlands does not support modding at this time. Please wait for mods to be officially supported before digging into the source code.

[Rifleman]

9 hours ago, cekivi said:

Two things:

One, amazing discussions but please try to avoid profanities.

Two, Hinterlands does not support modding at this time. Please wait for mods to be officially supported before digging into the source code.

Don't worry it's nothing major. I just fixed the lifespan on the meat.

[Shane Retter]

I'm 100% in favor of modding support, and I'm so happy to see it's included in the road map. I've created mods for a couple of my favorite games ... and added some that other excellent modders have created, and it only adds to the longevity of already great games like this one. I see some people against the idea, but in reality, it won't change your experience unless you add the mods. We don't mod because we hate the job Devs have done with the base game, we do it because we understand that Devs have to build to satisfy a broad range of tastes, and sometimes, there are things that only mods can add to satisfy our own little unique wants. I personally know of people who have bought games only because of the wide range of mods available ..... surly, this must be a plus for the game developers, as they can sell the game to an even wider range of people, without having to sacrifice as much of their own artistic vision to do so.

I think the mind set is, that people only add "cheat mods", or do it to make the game easier. Personally, I do it to add more fine pointed, and customized difficulty to games. Yes, someone may eventually create a mod that adds tanks ... but others will create all new difficulty modes for you, and some may be fantastic fun. Mods keep great games fresh for years after their release .... I'm still playing the original 'State of Decay', thanks only to very heavy file editing I've done. It's just made me love the "vanilla" base game even more.

 

[cekivi]

Welcome to the forums @Shane Retter

Digging through the archives I see

Yes, I think the general consensus has become modding should be a net good. There's many little things that I and other players would probably like to tweak just for more variety. For instance, I'd love to add potato chips, maple syrup, and caffeinated colas to the game

[Shane Retter]

@cekivi I'm thinking a game like this would have a pretty mature minded player base, and that would make for some great community built additions to the game. Just look at your list .... not rocket launchers, or hover boards .... just some more realistically based variety. I've already started forming a list of things I'd like to have a tinker with .... that only happens for me when the core game itself is so damn close to my personal idea of perfection to begin with. Haha, I was a more than a little surprised to find that Maple Syrup was not already a thing .... maybe the Dev team were trying to break some internationally excepted stereotypes  

 

 

[Baukster77]

On 3-4-2016 at 6:50 PM, Scyzara said:

+1 for modding. Not in order to change the game's overall feeling, spirit or mechanics, but to provide additional difficulty settings and experiences.

Can't agree more... +1