Drenching - Waterlogged clothing & gear

[LucidFugue]

There have been a few ideas at various points during the alpha period related to this concept, but I can't find topics specifically addressing them and I thought I would try to propose to roll them up into a central concept. That central concept - simulating water and its interactions with the existing materials and systems. In the back of my head, I suspect that if there is a plan to move to Spring at some point next year (or later), the impact of water will only become more important to consider. However, since that's far into the future, I'd like to stick to the current sandbox and season in terms of interactions.  

With that said, here are the related enhancements to support the concept. 

1. Clothing can become drenched, impacting temperature bonuses and condition

This has been suggested multiple times previously, generally as a result of falling through weak ice, which currently only exists as a means of creating a boundary for the player, but could be expanded.

How it works

Clothing gains an additional property to track its state of drenching. I'd suggest altering the status screen UI to show clothing on the body (a lot of extra art assets, I know, but I've always suspected this was the end goal anyway?) and each item can have either a bar or percentage. Making that not look cluttered is a task, but you'd have to do more than simply checking each item in the inventory grid. Drenching is increased by: 

• Events:
  • Falling in snow
  • Falling through weak ice
• Environment conditions
  • Moving through deep snow (e.g. off roads, ice, rocky areas) <- this could be tricky if the map doesn't have any layers to recognise this sort of feature and/or layering areas in this way wouldn't serve any other useful gameplay elements, so could be abandoned)
  • During snowfalls (variable depending on rate of snowfall)

Drenching is decreased by the items being near a fire, or at least an air temp of +20 degrees (something above frigid at any rate, whatever is reasonable from a balance perspective). Drenched clothing reduces its temperature protection significantly, such that it will begin to provide negative bonuses to temperature, but maintains its windchill protection.

That doesn't quite model how cold, wet clothing works, but it encourages a playstyle whereby if you are in cold, wet clothing, when you reach a heat source, you want to remove the affected clothing, and change into dry clothes if available. 

Waterlogged clothing also becomes gradually heavier.

2. Items in the player's inventory can become waterlogged

Your pack is not yet considered an item or container of any sort at the moment. While there are suggestions related to making packs a real thing (and having multiple types with different capacities etc.) for the moment I'm sticking with an abstraction. I'm sure one can see how pack drenching could apply similarly to clothing. What I'd propose for the moment, however, is to link the chance of inventory items becoming waterlogged with the state of the player's equipped clothing.

How it works

Each item of clothing is assumed to be protecting items from drenching, hence why clothing is the first thing to become progressively drenched. If the player has no equipped clothing, or their clothing is becoming waterlogged, the chance of items becoming drenched increases. 

• Waterlogged matches are useless until dried.
• Drenched firewood/sticks/tinder objects carry a higher difficulty to start a fire with.
  • Firestrikers and accelerant/fuel are now more useful even with a reasonably high fire starting skill
• waterlogged food spoils faster.
  • This would likely be in proportion to its normal spoilage rate, so canned goods aren't massively affected unless opened. But cans will eventually rust if left to the elements. 
• As the rifle becomes more waterlogged, the chance it will not fire increases. 
• Most other equipment is either immune to waterlogging, or will simply lose condition slightly faster. 

3. Waterproofing

Here we get to some additional protections to stop this becoming just a nightmare for everyone.

How it works

Winter clothing naturally carries a reasonable degree of waterproofing. Premium winter coats, synthetic jackets & vests, and woolen items, all have a higher resistance to drenching than jeans, cotton items, and so forth. This adds the potential for another way to determine what clothing is good for what conditions. Not just weight versus warmth. Tracksuit pants might be great warmth, but they become soaked rapidly, and so are only good indoors, for example.

Crafted hide clothing needs treatment in order to maintain its protection - if you don't treat leather it'll get absolutely ruined if it remains waterlogged. Fat/Lard makes sense to me as a waterproofing agent, but other ideas are welcome. Being able to harvest fat, and use that either as calories or protection from the elements can be used as a way of balancing the rewards from hunting. Wolves don't have a lot of fat, for example.

Obviously you cannot waterproof most items, but if we began to look into containers, that would be the natural way to protect important items from water damage (e.g. match/tinder tins).  

Any further enhancements on the concept are most welcome, but I like to think both focused on the concept, and holistically in terms of how the interactions work with everything else in the game already. Where else can water impact upon the player experience and create interesting interactions or decisions? 

[Dirmagnos]

Another feature proposed for the feature itself.

Falling thru ice should be a problem with current temperatures and "thin ice" off the coast is quite realistic. Not to mention that falling thru the ice with all the clothings and backpack would pretty much mean player death. Waterlogging would be the least of his problems.

Falling in the snow to cause waterlogging ? Seriously ?!?! Same goes for the snowfalls. Temperatures are below zero and winter clothing is designed to keep heat in and prevent it, as much as possible, to emanate out. And if snow dont melt, then it cant drench clothing(its crystal, not liquid). Those little bits that do get thru and melt, then get evaporated by the same body heat circulation inside clothing. Moving thru deep snow may have some merits, but only if boots+pants are not properly secured, and with more advanced/deer boots it wouldnt be an issue at all.

[LucidFugue]

Thanks for the feedback. I'm not sure what you mean by a feature proposed for the feature itself, but from your points I gather you mean that it doesn't actually fit in the setting. That's fair enough. 

I'm not actually familiar with Arctic/subarctic living or survival, as I live in a temperate forest environment that doesn't see snow. I know that cotton clothing will absorb moisture rather than keep it out, while synthetic materials are designed to wick away moisture. This is currently abstracted into the relative temperature bonuses of respective clothing items - so it that degree of abstraction is good enough, so be it. Adding complexity for complexity's sake isn't necessarily good. 

Pretty much all of the proposals I make, or commentary on other proposals is going to come from more of a design & mechanics perspective. It's not so much "is this realistic?", but more "does this introduce interesting decisions or interactions?" 

So the focus for me has been on things like broadening the decision-making about travelling in poor weather, preparation for and reaction to survival challenges (in this case, a temporary state of ineffective clothing), and perhaps most importantly, the introduction of a dimension that only comes into play in the late game when you have crafted clothing. 

Insulated boots and manufactured winter gear is designed waterproof. If I didn't make it clear, part of the concept was that it would be less of an issue with those items, but Deer leather boots stitched together with gut would need waterproofing to maintain a good  level of protection, obtained from fat, which is a hunting/harvesting item. This transfers the players early concerns about having enough protection from the cold (decent clothing), which is obtained from looting,  to a different need that is met in a different way. 

So part of the idea is that it isn't an issue with insulated boots and cargo pants, but it is with deer pants and boots. They're still top tier, but it's not necessarily bad design to introduce ancillary requirements to hold on to high tier equipment,as that keeps the player from simply snowballing their advantages and then getting bored because the challenge is gone. 

[Vhalkyrie]

On 3/22/2016 at 6:22 PM, LucidFugue said:

• Events:
  • Falling in snow
  • Falling through weak ice
• Environment conditions
  • Moving through deep snow (e.g. off roads, ice, rocky areas) <- this could be tricky if the map doesn't have any layers to recognise this sort of feature and/or layering areas in this way wouldn't serve any other useful gameplay elements, so could be abandoned)
  • During snowfalls (variable depending on rate of snowfall)

Of the items you listed, only one of these will make a player wet: Falling through weak ice.

As a skier, I have never become drenched or wet falling in snow, moving through snow, or during snowfall.   You're probably thinking of wet snow that happens in temps near 33F (which may melt when it makes contact), but snow at sub zero temps is quite dry. 

The only situation in which I might become 'damp' is if I overlayered my clothing for the conditions and start to sweat.  This is actually a bad thing, and the reason why ski jackets have vents - if you start feeling hot, you need to release heat fast.  Damp clothes will cool your body (which is exactly what it should do in temperate climates), but the opposite of what you want in very cold conditions.

[hauteecolerider]

16 hours ago, Vhalkyrie said:

You're probably thinking of wet snow that happens in temps near 33F (which may melt when it makes contact), but snow at sub zero temps is quite dry. 

You are absolutely correct, @Vhalkyrie. I lived in MN for five years, and miss the winters there - the snow was so dry that it blew right off the roads. Ice just didn't happen very often, again because it was too cold for water to form. 

When I had horses, I would let my mare roll in the snow after a good ride, then brush it off. She had such a thick winter coat that it never melted on her. The worst part about riding horses in winter is the sweat would make their coats damp, and then you had to blanket them so they wouldn't chill, and that kept their coats all crusty and gross. That's why the snow-rolling. She never turned down the opportunity for a good, blanket-less roll . . .

[Dirmagnos]

22 hours ago, LucidFugue said:

Pretty much all of the proposals I make, or commentary on other proposals is going to come from more of a design & mechanics perspective. It's not so much "is this realistic?", but more "does this introduce interesting decisions or interactions?" 

"Interesting interactions" is rather subjective term and open to interpretation as one pleases. And i dont find that idea to be interesting. Thats why i made a post about it.