Useful wishlist tools [poll]

[SteveP]

People have been asking for new tools from time to time. Here are some ideas that you might like to consider that I have gathered from past posts.

If you are curious about past discussions for these tools, please use the search facility to find those threads.

[SteveP]

Game calls?

[SteveP]

What if the only way you could get close enough to deer in order to harvest one is to use a game call? Game calls can be used for all types of animals including predators.

 

[knightjoke]

i voted all of them +1

[Wastelander]

I'd really like a thermos, just to add a layer of depth to daily planning.

"Where I am going, can I reliably start a fire or not? If not, I should boil my coffee now and store it in my thermos, if I can, however, I should leave the thermos here to save on weight."

[Ruruwawa]

What I care about most is a way to make fire without a manufactured tool, i.e., bow drill.   I'd trade every other new tool for this, seriously.

I personally don't feel a need for more manufactured stuff.  I voted for cordage and fishnets -- stuff we craft in the game (hurray progression!).  I'd love crafted wooden arrowheads (or sharpened/tempered wood shafts) too.  Less lethal, shorter range and harder to aim than the metal tip arrows we have now, but a practical stopgap when arrowheads are MIA.

That said, I upvoted @Wastelander's post because I like the thinking.  Everything should have a tradeoff.

[Mikeyd0577]

The one's that I believe the game needs most are

Compass - as long at the electromagnetic anomaly doesn't interfere with it

Thermos 

Game calls

Portable Containers - what I think of is like a sled.  Character would be able to carry more stuff at the cost of stamina

[Wastelander]

3 hours ago, Mikeyd0577 said:

The one's that I believe the game needs most are

Compass - as long at the electromagnetic anomaly doesn't interfere with it

Thermos 

Game calls

Portable Containers - what I think of is like a sled.  Character would be able to carry more stuff at the cost of stamina

Compass - well, the game describes it as a geomagnetic disaster, so I assume something's messing with the earths magnetic field (could be the sun, judging by the aurorae) or it's a pole-reversal event. In the former case the compass could still work, in the latter not. My current fanfic has the pole-reversal event headcanoned, but yeah, that's just my two canadian cents.

Thermos - definitely agree! Keep that coffee hot!

Game calls - what do you mean by that?

Portable containers - Yeah, a sled would be cool. Trade stamina, calories and traveling speed for more hauling capacity.

[SteveP]

1 hour ago, Wastelander said:

Game calls - what do you mean by that?

Game calls imitate either sexual vocalizations of animals like moose or deer, or imitate prey noises to attract predators, or attract things like ducks.

[Wastelander]

Just now, SteveP said:

Game calls imitate either sexual vocalizations of animals like moose or deer, or imitate prey noises to attract predators, or attract things like ducks.

Ah, those. Yeah, that's cool - should be learned though. Neither of the playable characters should have that knowledge right of the bat, but if it's learned I'm cool with it!

[SteveP]

1 minute ago, Wastelander said:

Ah, those. Yeah, that's cool - should be learned though. Neither of the playable characters should have that knowledge right of the bat, but if it's learned I'm cool with it!

Yeah, there's lots of stuff that needs special knowledge such as forging and metal working, making bows and arrows, even flint knapping. I think we can expect to see more of this idea of technological skills being boosted by finding books or even by encounters with NPCs.

 

[Wastelander]

2 minutes ago, SteveP said:

Yeah, there's lots of stuff that needs special knowledge such as forging and metal working, making bows and arrows, even flint knapping. I think we can expect to see more of this idea of technological skills being boosted by finding books or even by encounters with NPCs.

 

I can see this working especially well with NPCs, especially if you get the choice to either help them or just kill and rob them - moral decisions and stuff. "Look, buddy, you don't want to kill me - I can teach ya some stuff you'll need out here. If you help me patch up that wound o' mine, I'll teach ya - we got a deal, buddy?"

[SteveP]

34 minutes ago, Wastelander said:

I can see this working especially well with NPCs, especially if you get the choice to either help them or just kill and rob them - moral decisions and stuff. "Look, buddy, you don't want to kill me - I can teach ya some stuff you'll need out here. If you help me patch up that wound o' mine, I'll teach ya - we got a deal, buddy?"

Do you think that killing and robbing is a choice we will have to make? Dark. Very dark. Personally I don't care for games that depersonalize killing or warfare. It is already sad that the hunting and killing of animals seems to completely lack the feelings one must face when harvesting another living creature. I have no problem taking a fish however, killing a rabbit is not an easy task for a squeamish person. In the game we don't develop much of a sense of empathy for our "enemy" the wolf. I think it would be a good evolutionary step to let us players begin to appreciate the anguish animals (not just humans) suffer at the loss of a mate, parent or offspring or pack member. It's something to think about. How do we change humans to be more empathetic?

[Wastelander]

Just now, SteveP said:

Do you think that killing and robbing is a choice we will have to make? Dark. Very dark. Personally I don't care for games that depersonalize killing or warfare. It is already sad that the hunting and killing of animals seems to completely lack the feelings one must face when harvesting another living creature. I have no problem taking a fish however, killing a rabbit is not an easy task for a squeamish person. In the game we don't develop much of a sense of empathy for our "enemy" the wolf. I think it would be a good evolutionary step to let us players begin to appreciate the anguish animals (not just humans) suffer at the loss of a mate, parent or offspring or pack member. It's something to think about. How do we change humans to be more empathetic?

Again, I'm actually with you on that one.

Basically, animals should vocalize more - let us know that they're in pain. Let them have babies, let them socialise with each other when they don't notice us. Make us feel bad about killing them, but also make it a 'better you than me' moment.

Same with humans. We should have the option to kill and/or rob them, but they should seem human enough to make us feel bad afterwoods.

[Ruruwawa]

1 hour ago, SteveP said:

Do you think that killing and robbing is a choice we will have to make? Dark. Very dark. Personally I don't care for games that depersonalize killing or warfare.

I hope it doesn't go this way too.  I know it's a game but I don't believe things would play out this way in a real survival situation, and so far TLD has been on the realistic end of things.

For our entire history humans have banded together for survival and for good reason - it's much easier in a group.  Killing another person just to rob them is being a sociopath, not a survivor.  The most likely outcome is that other survivors would band together to put the "I don't value the knowledge or help of other people and I'm too lazy to hunt or fish, but I get my kicks out of murder" sicko down. 

Same for cannibalism in an environment where is food all around us (like in TLD).  What kind of person believes that their best meal is the corpse of a 30 year old ape raised on a diet of chemical-laced junk food?  And you thought getting parasites from predator meat was bad?  You're at risk of contracting far worse from eating your own species.

There are so many other games where folks can play out their sociopathic fantasies.  Not sure TLD needs to be another.

[Mikeyd0577]

4 hours ago, Wastelander said:

Compass - well, the game describes it as a geomagnetic disaster, so I assume something's messing with the earths magnetic field (could be the sun, judging by the aurorae) or it's a pole-reversal event. In the former case the compass could still work, in the latter not. My current fanfic has the pole-reversal event headcanoned, but yeah, that's just my two canadian cents.

Thermos - definitely agree! Keep that coffee hot!

Game calls - what do you mean by that?

Portable containers - Yeah, a sled would be cool. Trade stamina, calories and traveling speed for more hauling capacity.

Like SteveP said, vocalization of mating calls and also a rattle bag; used to imitate 2 bucks fighting during mating season.  

I agree with it needing to be a learned skill.  I am a hunter and it time and practice to get those right.

 

[Docterrok]

I do believe he got the binocular idea from me! 

[Dirmagnos]

9 hours ago, Wastelander said:

Compass - well, the game describes it as a geomagnetic disaster, so I assume something's messing with the earths magnetic field (could be the sun, judging by the aurorae) or it's a pole-reversal event. In the former case the compass could still work, in the latter not. My current fanfic has the pole-reversal event headcanoned, but yeah, that's just my two canadian cents.

Amount of disturbance by solar winds can be determined by intensity of auroras. The only known event that caused severe malfunction of compass was Carringron event. And according to eyewitnesses magnitude of aurora brightness during that time were comparable to daylight, as many ppl woke up in the middle of the night and started to prepare for their day to day routines. 

Judging by various released screenshots auroras in the game are rather average, so there is no way that geomagnetic field is so scrambled to prevent normal(or at least acceptable) functionality of compass. Not to mention that it seems that auroras, eg disturbance, is not constant. So compass should work, if not all the time, but most of it. At the worse needle would sway a bit left/right.

Pole reversal is event that takes thousands of years. Even "fast" ones occurred over span of hundreds of years. It simply cant happen overnight. That would be against the laws of physics as we know them.

[Docterrok]

14 minutes ago, Dirmagnos said:

Amount of disturbance by solar winds can be determined by intensity of auroras. The only known event that caused severe malfunction of compass was Carringron event. And according to eyewitnesses magnitude of aurora brightness during that time were comparable to daylight, as many ppl woke up in the middle of the night and started to prepare for their day to day routines. 

Judging by various released screenshots auroras in the game are rather average, so there is no way that geomagnetic field is so scrambled to prevent normal(or at least acceptable) functionality of compass. Not to mention that it seems that auroras, eg disturbance, is not constant. So compass should work, if not all the time, but most of it. At the worse needle would sway a bit left/right.

Pole reversal is event that takes thousands of years. Even "fast" ones occurred over span of hundreds of years. It simply cant happen overnight. That would be against the laws of physics as we know them.

While that is all well and good, compasses would be slightly off no matter what, because under an aurora it is a less than perfect polarity.

[Dirmagnos]

6 hours ago, Ruruwawa said:

I hope it doesn't go this way too.  I know it's a game but I don't believe things would play out this way in a real survival situation, and so far TLD has been on the realistic end of things.

For our entire history humans have banded together for survival and for good reason - it's much easier in a group.  Killing another person just to rob them is being a sociopath, not a survivor.  The most likely outcome is that other survivors would band together to put the "I don't value the knowledge or help of other people and I'm too lazy to hunt or fish, but I get my kicks out of murder" sicko down. 

Same for cannibalism in an environment where is food all around us (like in TLD).  What kind of person believes that their best meal is the corpse of a 30 year old ape raised on a diet of chemical-laced junk food?  And you thought getting parasites from predator meat was bad?  You're at risk of contracting far worse from eating your own species.

There are so many other games where folks can play out their sociopathic fantasies.  Not sure TLD needs to be another.

Actually thats how things would play out in real survival situation. And they have, again and again and again, over the course of human history. And the worse situation is the worse and save sides of human psyche come to the surface. Very few will be willing to die of starvation or dehydration or cold, if they can help it, even at some1 else expense. Degree is arbitrary, based purely on situation. And if you havent been really hungry or cold or thirsty, then you cant possibly understand how far human animal is willing to do to survive.

Potential of human savagery is best seen in wars. Over half of them are already fought out of greed, "War of Terror" is a good example. Second half is out of stupidity. And in every age, in every war its the same thing - rape, murder and pillaging. From the beginning of human history to modern days. On every side of the conflict. There is no such thing as just war and things are actually getting worse, with more and more civilians becoming collateral.

If your idealistic world view would have any merit, then we all would be sitting around the fire and singing "Kumbaya", instead of thinking where to stick another few thousands of inmates, since prisons are overpopulated.

In survival situation, when choice is presented, average human being will AWLAYS chose personal survival over others. Ever heard of prisoner dilemma ? Thats just a basic example.

People fear people. And in extreme situations that fear is being upgraded to overwhelming paranoia.

Btw, its a well known biological fact that eating other people is the most efficient way of replenishing own energy supplies. There is a reason why human meat is called "long pork". And there is a reason why pork in general is so popular and why swine organs are often used in transplants.

And junk food diet is not as important as you may think. Or do you think that chicken or pork or beef you consume has been harvested from happy animals who spend their days joyfully wandering green pastures, not being crammed in small dark spaces with hundreds of others being fed some genetically altered chemical junk to speed up their growth and body mass gain ? Same goes for fish btw.

[Wastelander]

Quote

Actually thats how things would play out in real survival situation. And they have, again and again and again, over the course of human history. And the worse situation is the worse and save sides of human psyche come to the surface. Very few will be willing to die of starvation or dehydration or cold, if they can help it, even at some1 else expense. Degree is arbitrary, based purely on situation. And if you havent been really hungry or cold or thirsty, then you cant possibly understand how far human animal is willing to do to survive.

True.

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Potential of human savagery is best seen in wars. Over half of them are already fought out of greed, "War of Terror" is a good example. Second half is out of stupidity. And in every age, in every war its the same thing - rape, murder and pillaging. From the beginning of human history to modern days. On every side of the conflict. There is no such thing as just war and things are actually getting worse, with more and more civilians becoming collateral.

Bit too political for my taste, but the message is correct. I might add that a lot of propaganda efforts go into dehumanizing the enemy, so that plays a part as well.

Quote

In survival situation, when choice is presented, average human being will AWLAYS chose personal survival over others. Ever heard of prisoner dilemma ? Thats just a basic example.

Not always, but in 95% of cases, yeah. Mothers are known to willingly abandon their own wellbeing for their children's sake in extreme situations.

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People fear people. And in extreme situations that fear is being upgraded to overwhelming paranoia.

Every year of recorded history summed up in a single quote, I applaud you.

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Btw, its a well known biological fact that eating other people is the most efficient way of replenishing own energy supplies. There is a reason why human meat is called "long pork". And there is a reason why pork in general is so popular and why swine organs are often used in transplants.

Can I get a source on this?

Quote

And junk food diet is not as important as you may think. Or do you think that chicken or pork or beef you consume has been harvested from happy animals who spend their days joyfully wandering green pastures, not being crammed in small dark spaces with hundreds of others being fed some genetically altered chemical junk to speed up their growth and body mass gain ? Same goes for fish btw.

I don't believe so, but, in a survival situation, do you even care what the animal thought or what it ate? Personally, I'd think most people would just think about how many days worth of meat an animal is carrying.

[cekivi]

@SteveP I find it funny how everyone agrees more stuff is good but no one can agree on the specifics

For me, most of the items are nice. I'd prefer not to see the compass though since the aurora effect should prevent it from being accurate...

[Wastelander]

1 minute ago, cekivi said:

@SteveP I find it funny how everyone agrees more stuff is good but no one can agree on the specifics

For me, most of the items are nice. I'd prefer not to see the compass though since the aurora effect should prevent it from being accurate...

Everyone wants to be a developer until it's time to do developer things

I agree on most things except the forging tools and the compass - the forging tools because I do sincerely believe that the forge is completely unnecessary and the compass for the reasons @cekivi pointed out.

[Dirmagnos]

Yes, i went a bit 2 far with that "always" part. In majority of cases it still will be eventually "me vs them", even if initial contact was positive.

There is a reason why those mothers and "heroes" in general become widely known. They are extremely rare. Like one in a million rare. It requires an extraordinary force of will to do extraordinary things(or have your head extraordinarily scrambled). Most people simply dont have it(i know that i dont from personal experience). And in extreme situations its not hunger, not thirst, not cold that turns people into animals, its lack of hope, its situations where you not just havent eaten in a few days, but you have no idea when you will eat, if at all. There is no supermarket behind the corner, there is no 911 on speed-dial. And in situation like in LD, one suddenly realizes that hes not on the top of the food chain, quite far from it actually.

And about cannibalism just look up "facts about cannibalism" and "pigs in science/medicine".

A myth about cannibalism is being unhealthy is just that, a myth. Its a social invention with no actual factual basis. A conditioning, something along the lines of "do not kill". Sure, there are things like kuru, but as long as meat is properly prepared and stored, not to mentioning avoiding certain parts of body(why to hell would you eat brain to begin with), not to mentioning that this disease is restricted to a small part of the word, you should be just fine. At least no worse than from consuming any other type of meat. All the same rules apply - harvesting, preparation, storage, etc Eating human meat is purely ethically wrong, thats all.

And thing about digestion is basic biology. Since all humans have essentially same composition, then its easier for our digestive system to break it down and for our body to absorb those nutrients, less waste and work.

Btw, funny fact, cannibalism is actually legal in most countries.

[Dirmagnos]

5 minutes ago, cekivi said:

@SteveP I find it funny how everyone agrees more stuff is good but no one can agree on the specifics

For me, most of the items are nice. I'd prefer not to see the compass though since the aurora effect should prevent it from being accurate...

The more items that can be used for various tasks and materials that can be used in various crafting jobs, the better.

And there is absolutely no reason for compass to be unusable.