Make mines colder

[exeexe]

If you have ever been in a mine you know its a really cold place. Especially during winter. For this i think the mines should be extra cold. Like i expect that if i start a new game and go through a mine with the starting clothes im wearing i would get out on the other side with hypothermia...

Im not talking about 4 meter deep caves that can be warmed up with your own body heat

[SteveP]

It depends upon how deep into the ground you go. At about 30-50 feet into a mine or about 30 feet below the overlying mass of a mountain, the temperature of the mine corresponds to the average seasonal temperature due to the mass inertia of the ground. As you go deeper underground, the temperature begins to be affected by the internal temperature of the earth's core. Mines tend to be warmer than caves since they are typically far underground. Caves are created by water flow so often there is an inlet and an outlet and air movement. Air movement can significantly affect cave or mine temperatures; see last citation below.

If the temperature of mines and caves is made colder, it would have a drastic effect upon survivalbility in a cave or mine and this will affect "game balance".

http://www.builditsolar.com/Projects/Cooling/EarthTemperatures.htm  discusses the mean earth temperature as a function of depth.

As you can see from this diagram, the mean ground temperature in Western Canada is actually relatively temperate.

For deep mines there is the geothermal heat gradient: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geothermal_gradient

Quote

Geothermal gradient is the rate of increasing temperature with respect to increasing depth in the Earth's interior. Away from tectonic plate boundaries, it is about 25 °C per km of depth (1 °F per 70 feet of depth) near the surface in most of the world.

Finally this article discusses the influences of air flow and water flow upon internal cave temperatures. Not all caves are alike. Incidentally, all the mines in TLD have doors that seem to block the wind. http://www.nps.gov/wica/learn/nature/cave-meteorology.htm If that helps the reasonable suspension of disbelief of the game!

 

[SEAplane]

Adding a shovel to the wanted tool list.

[SteveP]

4 minutes ago, SEAplane said:

Adding a shovel to the wanted tool list.

I have it on my consolidated wish list and checking it twice! What purposes would you use it? I have suggestions of pit trap and snow shelter building. It might be useful for future stuff like making char but I think they would go with the modern char tin for that rather than make things more complex than necessary.

[selfless]

Real-life caves are relatively cold compared to body temperature, but relatively warm compared to outdoor winter temperatures.  So, while they are indeed warmer, should they actually be safe-havens for the unclothed?

The interesting point that few have considered is that hypothermia is an actual concern even at seemingly normal room temps of 20 degrees C.  Body temps are normally controlled and maintain around 37 degrees C.  Should our regulatory systems fail to keep that temperature within 2 degrees of that, varied body functions fail.  Continued existence without those functions is not possible so warmth/chill must somehow be restored.  If instead there is continued cooling, 30 degrees C is going to bring on full shutdown/death.   

So the game's critical Feels-Like threshold of 0 degrees C is probably a bit off.  If I am ever again standing naked in the snow feeling like it is even +1 degrees C, I am quite certain I am going to be uncomfortable if not also jumping up and down, hollering curse words, and shivering like a frightened puppy.  At least until I reach exhaustion, lie down, and most likely die.

[Vhalkyrie]

According to the US National Park Service, the deeper parts of Carlsbad Caverns are temperature stable year round.  The mouth of caves are likely to be colder, but the interior ranges between 40-68F depending where it is.

http://www.nps.gov/cave/learn/nature/weather.htm

Since the designers have taken some creative liberties to balance gameplay over absolute realism, this is probably their reasoning for hospitable mines/caves.

[exeexe]

I might have exaggerated a little bit how cold it is in mines. So i looked it up..
In the mines of Harzen in Germany the temperature is constant at around 12C
http://rejser.guide.dk/Kulturferie/Tyskland/Kultur/Historie/Sev%C3%A6rdigheder/Naturoplevelser/Harzen_er_rig_p%C3%A5_verdensarv_6997908

Quote

konstant temperatur på ca. 12 grader.

Since it is at around 20C as naked that you begin to freeze (The amount of heat energy leaving the body is higher than what the body can generate) and you freeze in the game at around -0C it has to be corrected to equivalent of around -8C

[SteveP]

Perhaps you are hoping for some additional risks to be found in caves? Have you thought about the hazards posed by bats and the nasty viruses they carry? or water in the cave that can give hypothermia? I do like the idea of some additional but manageable risks especially those that carry a survival lesson in real life.

I remember too many examples in Dual Survival where they had to go swimming underwater in a cave in order to escape. Just the thought of that fills me with dread from claustrophobia. I like the idea of creepy noises in caves and mines. Adds to the ambiance! The rock falls are unnerving as it is; I keep on waiting for the inevitable cave-in!

[exeexe]

3 hours ago, SteveP said:

Perhaps you are hoping for some additional risks to be found in caves? Have you thought about the hazards posed by bats and the nasty viruses they carry? or water in the cave that can give hypothermia? 

Would be cool!

[Vhalkyrie]

Caves IRL are rarely uninhabited - animals need shelter too.  Having to smoke out a cave with a fire before you can go in it might be cool.

[exeexe]

1 hour ago, Vhalkyrie said:

Caves IRL are rarely uninhabited - animals need shelter too.  Having to smoke out a cave with a fire before you can go in it might be cool.

I dont know. I dont think caves in Canada needs to be smoked.. Sure if it was in the tropical..

[Vhalkyrie]

LOL there are definitely bats in Canada.

http://globalnews.ca/news/1472596/stay-away-from-bats-vancouver-coastal-health/

The first time I ever saw a bat was when I lived in the Pacific Northwest.  It flew in a window, got trapped in the bathroom.  My roommate got a broom and shooed it back out the window!

Also, one of the primary codes of backpacking is: always assume caves are occupied.

[exeexe]

6 minutes ago, Vhalkyrie said:

LOL there are definitely bats in Canada.

http://globalnews.ca/news/1472596/stay-away-from-bats-vancouver-coastal-health/

The first time I ever saw a bat was when I lived in the Pacific Northwest.  It flew in a window, got trapped in the bathroom.  My roommate got a broom and shooed it back out the window!

Also, one of the primary codes of backpacking is: always assume caves are occupied.

Well its not bats that are dangerous but their leftovers. So you would have to clean the floor if there are bats

[Vhalkyrie]

This is getting off-topic, but bat guano is used as both fuel and fertilizer in some parts of the world.  Others mentioned they wanted bats.  If there are bats, and you want to use their cave, you have to smoke them out first.  Anyway, it's unlikely to ever get implemented, I just think that caves shouldn't be assumed to be safe.

[exeexe]

14 minutes ago, Vhalkyrie said:

This is getting off-topic, but bat guano is used as both fuel and fertilizer in some parts of the world.  Others mentioned they wanted bats.  If there are bats, and you want to use their cave, you have to smoke them out first.  Anyway, it's unlikely to ever get implemented, I just think that caves shouldn't be assumed to be safe.

u can watch here

 

[SteveP]

Caves in the game serve as connectors between regions. They are also like mini-maps and transition zones as well as places to find stuff.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Histoplasmosis

covers cave diseases. I don't know if a cave can be completely sterilized. Cody refused to stay in a baobab tree even if it was swept out and smoked out. Cavers have to deal with the issue so that's an avenue to research.

[exeexe]

1 minute ago, SteveP said:

Caves in the game serve as connectors between regions. They are also like mini-maps and transition zones as well as places to find stuff.

Caves are also like an 8 meter deep hole into the cliff with a dead end

[SteveP]

Should the caves on TWM be more maze like so that it's easier to get very lost? It would be nice to have some sort of item one could create a trail with. A string wouldn't be long enough I guess. I mostly use sticks or burnt out flares which have high visibility. Reclaimed wood is even more visible.